Dr. Lee's Talking Point: Porn, Hits and Hypocrisy

2010/04/14 UPDATE: I've decided to remove the links from this post, as these people have had more than enough traffic from us already, and they never linked to us so people could read the other side of the story anyway.

It is with some trepidation that I write this post, as I suspect it is exactly what the people who inspired this article want me to do. But I thought this episode raised a few interesting issues that would make for good discussion as a "Dr. Lee's Talking Point" article, so I've decided to post it anyway.

Recently (as I'm sure some of you will remember), CEC featured Winnipeg blogger/vlogger and import model Keo Necra. As per his usual approach, he sent her a friendly message to let her know that her article had been posted. She responded that she wasn't happy with being featured on a "pornographic site", and asked us to post her response to the article in the comments, which we did. Then, when she wasn't happy with the response to her comments, she decided to post an article on her blog trashing Asian Sirens. By this point, it was starting to become clear that she was using her supposed indignation at being featured on Asian Sirens as a publicity stunt. Then CEC nuked her post and the comments on it. So as there now wasn't anything for her to complain about, she removed the stuff on Asian Sirens from her blog as well. Incredibly though, that wasn't the end of the matter.

No doubt smelling an opportunity for loads of hits, Keo's associate Van Kunder decided to do a hit piece on Asian Sirens on her blog. Amusingly, despite the obvious intent of the article, she denies that they need any hits from Asian Sirens, reinforcing the point with faux laughter. Well, let's just say that the traffic they get and the traffic we get are not even in the same ballpark: for example, the video CEC featured in his article for only a few days has received four times as many hits as Keo's other recent videos. And while I can't get traffic stats on Keo's blog, given that virtually none of her posts have any responses, it is hard to imagine that it is very popular. Furthermore, Keo has converted the text of her original post on Asian Sirens to "*CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK!!* LOOKING for something to read? YOU HAVE TO READ THIS!" and re-titled it "I Annihilate Enemies". Hmmm...

Van Kunder repeats Keo's assertion that Asian Sirens is a porn site, using a reference from Wikipedia to "prove" her case. Well, while it is technically true that Asian Sirens would have been classified as "softcore" under the traditional definition of porn, as I'm sure Van Kunder knows, not many people use that definition today. It is now largely interchangeable with what used to be called "hardcore": in other words, sexually explicit material, rather than just nudity as is featured here (we specifically do not allow the placing of sexually explicit material, although we do allow linking to it). What Keo and Van are calling "porn" is now more commonly called "adult".

Van Kunder's article is also riddled with clear-cut factual errors, including:

*She cites examples of supposed material from Asian Sirens to "prove" that it's a porn site, but she cites our ads, rather than actual material from this site.

*She claims that all the women we feature are "duplicates", and that none of them is under a C-cup.

*She claims that CEC is "the voice behind Asian Sirens".

As for Keo herself, I think I can sum up her outrageous hypocrisy with the following two consecutive tweats from her Twitter stream:

Import season is around the corner! Who wants to capture me in some photos??

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with anymore easily angered middle-aged perves <3Life's a beaut! 8)

Uh huh. So it's okay for "middle-aged perves" to come and take her photo, and yet... I should also point out that this info came to me courtesy of Christine (I avoid Twitter like the plague), who is an Asian female even younger than Keo herself - and I know from my mailbox that she is far from alone amongst Asian Sirens' readership.

Clearly Keo's supposed indignation at being featured on a so-called "porn site" is a total crock: I think that in reality she was just pissed off that I referred to her blog - and other blogs like it chronicling people's mundane, everyday lives - as boring, vapid and pointless. And about the only thing I found remotely entertaining about her videos was her impersonations of her mother, which get old pretty quickly anyway.

So what do our readers think? Is Asian Sirens a porn site? Does it matter anyway? And what do you think of these hypocritical, self-proclaimed internet "celebrities" who think they're too good to be featured here? Or more accurately, whose seriously over-inflated egos are too delicate to accept any criticism of what they do?

UPDATE: Keo has now posted her email exchange with CEC on her blog - it clearly demonstrates that this whole drama really is about my comments that her blog and vlog were boring, vapid, pointless and of little value, even just as light entertainment. So in other words, all of this drama is simply because Keo can't take genuine criticism, exactly as I suspected all along. And by her own admission, she has decided to turn it into a publicity stunt.

Oh, and it is amusing that Keo has used the fact that we have re-posted her original article to claim that CEC is a liar, when in fact she knows very well that it was taken down as promised on the 25th (as her second tweet above clearly demonstrates). We only decided to put it back up today for reference purposes in relation to this article. And the reason we posted this article is that she decided to continue trashing Asian Sirens after we took her post down, and I felt this raised some interesting issues for discussion.

2010/04/08 UPDATE: Keo's hypocrisy knows no bounds, it seems. She complains about being featured on a "porn site" without her permission, but now she has published private emails from three AS feature models without their permission! And she uses them to claim that they didn't know they've been featured here, when in fact they've actually approved their features here. They didn't know they'd been featured on a "porn site", because from their point of view, AS isn't one! And Keo claims the emails were forwarded to her by someone named "JaneQ", who is very obviously just Keo herself.

I also know that they've asked Keo to remove their emails from her site, but she's refused to do so (and none of them have asked us to take down their features either). Once again, when Keo asked us to take down her feature, we did, even though we had no legal or ethical responsibility to do so. She on the other hand has published people's private emails without their permission, and refused to take them down when requested to do so.

Oh, and this isn't an April fool's joke! :-)

Um...Doc...who cares? Where's the hot Asian Siren to admire and appreciate?

If any model isn't happy with their feature or the comments - nuke 'em! There are plenty of other gorgeous Asian women for us to focus our attention and admiration on!

Next...

It's obvious her only real beef was the criticism of her blog. A criticism which was accurate, as it is with a lot of self serving blogs these days.

Yea and it does definitely smack of hypocrisy for any 'model' to think they are too good to be on a "porn" site such as this, yet continue to promote themselves in exactly the way women are featured on Asian Sirens.

And from a middle aged perv, I have no desire to see any of her pictures here on AS!

What she has said/done is just plain stupid. This is not a porn site. I wouldn't have heard of half of the beautiful woman out there if it wasn't for this site. Examples are Wuyiman and Lynda Wong. No nudes from them. Just beautiful shots of beautiful women. Lynda, who is near Keo's age and has similar beliefs (I'm fairly sure) said this.

"Hey everyone! This is Lynda and I just read all your comments. Some are positive and some are negative, but that's alright! I appreciate all your comments because I love to hear your opinions and everyone has the right to express their thoughts. I know my face and body is flawed here and there. I'm not perfect and I don't try to be. This is me 100% real in photoshoots I did just for fun & as a hobby. I'm not trying to be a top model and I don't expect myself to be one. I also apoligize I'm not a professional make-up artist. I know it looks quite horrible :T but who cares! they're just pictures. Everyone has good ones and bad ones. i AM just an amateur model. Nothing more & nothing less (:

Thanks for all the comments
Have a lovely day<3"

Nowhere does she say point out that this is a porn site but rather she takes what was said about her and is happy with it. Maybe someone is just isn't confident with their body *hint hint*. Either way, Keo's just a waste of time trying to make more fame of herself by sparking this little war. And ads are just to make money. Clearly some people don't know what it costs to actually run their own. Heaven forbid if Asian-Sirens ran off twitter. I wouldn't even bother coming here :P.

to run their own website**

I always considered Asian Sirens a porn site.

Its even classified as a porn site by my web browsers.

Well I think you might be correct in saying that responding is playing into the response they want.

I've always considered this a porn site, ableit a very soft core one, which is why I've always found it amusing at the no P shots rule but I also understand the reasoning to a certain extent. Recently it has seemed more like a beauty appreciation site than before all of which is fine by me but I still feel like it's trying to be something more than it actually is, not that there's anything wrong with striving for something more. Who cares if it's a porn site or a soft core site, there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm probably in the minority about this, but I get why some people wouldn't want to be featured here and I empathize with them. I couldn't care less whether the models and "celebrities" are egocentric or hypocritical or fake, I'm not interested in being their friends, I just want to see pretty faces. If I want to meet sweet people, I'll sign up for E Harmony.

So keep em coming:)

I initially felt a little bad for Keo at the beginning (although I think the Natalie Tran comparison was justified considering what they both do) however as the saga unfolded I think CEC is perhaps the main victim and has been wrongly villified for trying to do the right thing and informing her of the post. I hope this experience doesn't stop him contributing in the future as I like the variety his posts offer.
Whether AS is porn or not, I would have said no but my wife would say it was. I see it as an educational tool (to find where the good porn is!)

Slackering, look out for E Harmony there is way more perverts there than you will ever find at Asian Sirens

@ Luke72 - Stop contributing? Are you kidding? Some immature little girl posting rants and lies about me and this site sure doesn't phase me.

Her entry took me all of 15 minutes and was just intended as filler, sort of like the commercials that Robin used to post, so I never thought much of her to begin with, but now I see that she's just cheap, lying trash that isn't even worthy of my further consideration.

It is quite amusing to compare this article with Keo's very nasty and personal response to it, and equally amusing to compare her fans' tweets on her post with the far more reasoned and thoughtful comments on here. But hey, she's the mature one, right? ;-)

Good to hear CEC, but be careful that comment is surely fodder for another rant on her blog..

Well almost all the sites are porn on this site...

sorry. i mean advertisements haha

This is one of those things that always seems to make me sad. I remember finding out that Tilae had asked me to take down her photos, but she sent it to an email she found on a linked website instead of directly to AS. I didn't get it until 6 months later when I was closing the email account. She attacked me on her MySpace and I didn't even know she had emailed me =(.

I have no real opinion of this. I do not consider the site pornography, but I can understand if someone does not want to be featured.

Anyway, good luck to all involved.

I would think most girls featured here would be happy with the publicity and raw comments which would enable them to assess their progress as models/artists or whatever (see VinL post a few comments above). In this very unforgiving career they have decided to persue, they must develop skills in handling both positive and negative comments. True, some are amateurs and others do this for fun but the ones who actively persue the big dollars must expect various negative (and some actually rude) comments and should quickly realise that their target audience are generally more interested in 'seeing' not 'hearing' them.
For me, Asian Sirens offers the opportunity for model and viewer to indulge in a bit of harmless visual glamour and to be able to post simple comments in a very direct way.

"If you cannot stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

I can certainly understand why many people would consider this site as "porn". Some models that are featured here are porn actresses. Some pics that are displayed of said models are soft pornography.

Having said that, I question what the issue is with pornography or nudity in the first place. It really comes down to the puritanical, conservative and negative view on sexuality that persists in North America.

As per Keo, I stand by everything I wrote in her profile. What drives me is the empowerment people get when playing the "victim". Nothing quite feels as good as being a righteous, wronged martyr figure. Unfortunately, Keo clearly lacked the maturity to attempt to understand this site; instead jumping to wild conclusions. There's nothing saying she had to accept this site, but she certainly could have politely asked to be removed as CEC politely informed her of her profile here.

Then again, I suspect the Doc is correct: Keo was miffed at her blog/vlog being summarized as "boring, vapid, pointless and of little value". Fair enough, but as I said before, if you put yourself out there you should expect criticism. It's the nature of the beast...

What? There are actually lies, inaccuracies, fabrications, falsehoods, and attempts at petty retribution/revenge on the net? Tell me it isn’t so! If this is the worst this site is subject to, consider yourself lucky.

Doc: 'Just wanted to thank you for doing this entry. Very interesting exchange, including your own posts on the Van Kunder site. Undoubtedly you're right about the source of this being your criticism of KN's site content. Some people are awfully thin-skinned, and the net's no place for them. What characterizes AS for me is less the photos (which are great) than the discussion, which remains consistently polite (remarkable, given the subject), sometimes even rising to the level of thoughtful!
;-)

Honestly, these yawn-worthy YouTube "celebrities" are stretching the time limit on Andy Warhol's 15-minutes of fame.

Can we just subtract her 10 minutes and call it even? We can spend the remaining time appreciating one of Travis' beauties with an AS reading of greater than 1.80.

As for increasing her readership--would suggest re-focusing her efforts on producing actual content--over bashing and shameless self-promoting. Building an actual and sustainable audience requires MUCH more.

I don't see this as a porn site but more as a modeling site, to expose Asian models to a wider audience. Yes, some of the models are nudes and some are not. Personally, I'm not big on porn actresses (I don't care for that look) but many others love them, so that's fine by me.

This particular girl is obviously trying to milk her indignation as in, "Methinks thou dost protest too much". The initial complaint was fine and the response from AS was appropriate, yet she didn't leave it there but continued to try and build on her supposed indignation.

Personally, I think she's reveling in this because if she felt truly embarrassed, she would have dropped the subject as soon as her post was taken down.

Ah... little girls always let their hormones get the best of them.

Other thoughts:

"Yellow" fever is a deeply offensive term.
Cup size is irrelevant and is completely subjective.
Nudity does not equal Pornography.
Nudity itself should never be confused with overt sexuality or sexual content (grow up non-middle aged girl).

AS is not a pornographic site anymore than Playboy offers pornographic content.

Reality check: this is not 1950 and this battle began far before she discovered her iMac camera and a dial-up account to the internet. Please do not wave the flag of indecency and 'perversion' to draw attention to yourself.

Nothing that she has blathered suggests an actual concern for the subject matter other than "I'm too prudent to be associated with 'filth'."

Criticism can be healthy. Bashing is not.
She is neither funny, attractive, or entertaining.

Time for more sirens and less mediocre M. Cho/Tila impersonations.

As Hakka Guy says, if she really just didn't want to be on here, she would have removed all references to it after her post was deleted. Instead, she upped the ante.

I also strongly agree that there's absolutely nothing wrong with porn or nudity anyway. The stigma attached to it is just puritanical conservatism, although in this case, Keo has used it as a convenient excuse to not face up to genuine criticism, and as an opportunity for a cynical publicity stunt.

if she didn't want to be on here, she would've asked for that first instead of giving the option of posting the e-mail in full to let "people know her intent."

chris sent a legimitate e-mail response at that point, but obviously what she really wanted was complete removal. her initial request was vague, and also incorrect re: the tila comparisons and communitychannel, since no one outright compared her to tila (in fact, chris' post said that she did NOT like to be compared to tila, which is a reference to a video she made a long time ago).

and i think it's pretty obvious that chris' tila references in his later e-mails are sarcastic as well.

i like how she refers to herself as an "underdog" in the blogging community. lol. oh, poor me.

She said she wasn't another Tila Tequila, but she sure went to the same school of internet marketing.

I'd delete this post completely. Within a day, this will be her highest Google ranking ever.

Don't feed the monster.

also, she didn't get any haters until a-s posted about her probably because she hasn't ever had this many viewers. no comments on her blog and only at most ~3k views per video? even when i was running a blog some years ago i had more comments/pageviews, and i didn't even have haters yet. at that level, you're just not well-known enough to get the trolls. it's not really something that's due to her ability to "control" her means of communication, but moreso her lack of viewers.

Oh well, its over now...can we get some more Porn please :P

In fairness Christine, no doubt part of the reason your blog got more comments than Keo's is that it was actually interesting. :-)

If AS really wanted to end the reindeer games, a declaration could be made to brand subject as a Tila Tequila clone.

The combined power of AS casual traffic could have her permanently referred to online as Two-la Tequila or something similar within 24 hours.

Personally, I think she is vapid and uninteresting and now I can add that she is opportunistic, hypocritical, and I am raising the ante to INCREDIBLY boring. She needs to get a life, and some better material.

Ignore her, really. Let it drop.

Asian Sirens is not a porn site. I am new here but the difference is obvious. Just look at the discussions. It is a beauty appreciation site. It is an adult site, yes. Porn, not by the remotest definition in the modern world. If I want to see people stuffing oversized anythings into holes that never were meant to have any such thing in them I can visit thousands of PORN sites.

Keo is in the category of people who try to become something by making a monster PR event out of every time they blow their nose. "Look, I blew my nose!". They think it's worthy of stardom. They make controversy out of the question "How are you today?"

I'm bored with her and the discussion. More beauty, fewer press seekers.

An opinion. I always go by the definition, how would you explain this to your mother and thus I probably would describe it as a porn site. Suspect the models being people may not always respond favorably or even in their best interests at times to this site and as such it may be necessary to manage their responses to minimize harm and maintain the capacity for obtaining further content. Even if they are wrong at times.

I actually like the variation in content, including the discussion, critical or not.

I agree with luvasianwimin. Drop it. She obviously wants some sort of feud... and is intent on dragging it out, if for no other reason than it will give her something to blog about. I know that you have the urge to respond to her, but the less attention you give to her antics, the more crazy and unreasonable she will look.

I suggested someone be put shown off. Where is it? Hmm

Someone mentioned in the first post about her that she did not like comparisons to Tila Tequila. If you cut through her drama queen bs there is not much separating her from TT. Both are scavenging for hits to get their 21st century golden ticket to fame.

Forgot....Damn the Youtube queens, full speed ahead with Asian Sirens!

I don't see AS as porn, just as I don't see Playboy as porn. It's a full blown adult site.
With nudity, beautiful women and some sexual content but also art. So I understand why some women may not want to be featured here, but no reason for drama.

CEC has always been very careful and responsible regarding model's requests, so I'm assuming he did everything right. He seems a true gentleman.

She wasn't so attractive anyway! I don't even bother to write this because of her, I just write this because AS is a great place. And if I want to deal with immature girls I'll hit it with a 20yo, not read her blog. ;)
(christine, don't read this last part)

That's a joke btw, I praise many young women who have a good mind.

What a rotten batch?!

I have seen so many countless responses by the very women that were posted on this site! They love to be on here! Yup, she is just pissed that the queen bee dare be insulted!!!

The egos of "internet celebrities" is outrageous... Imagine how it would be if she was a real celebrity. Cheese and rice, I can only image.

Oh my God!!! I just found out she actually has flippin T-shirts!!! AHHHH!!! Then she goes about begging for people to actually buy them! Who the hell cares enough to want to buy this crap?! What an ego nut case! Can you imagine dating this girl? (and yes, she is definitely a 2 to 3 on a scale of 10)

Dr. Lee- I just wanted to comment off topic here about what you said about "pornography"... Look, I am 100% libertarian leaning politically and socially as they come. I find nothing wrong with Pornography for the general public. People have every right to do what they want.

Look, I am no angel when it comes to porn. I have seen it and watched as 99% of all adult males. However, something does seem a little dirty about the more hardcore stuff. It just gives me this "heeby jeeby" feeling. The really hardcore stuff feels like it stems from the darkness of the soul, manifest. I cant put it in words, but perhaps its social conditioning. I dont know. But it should never be outlawed. There is also nothing wrong with a sexually liberated society and there is nothing wrong with sexuality in general, but I just find the really hard core stuff to be "evil" (for lack of a better term) in some form. I dont know... Would you care to answer or would you like to save for another thread?

I don't think of this as a porno site at all.
None in the posts , or ads are sexually explicit. Like weekender said , "nudity does not equal pornography". The links within the posts or ads maybe, but they don't define this site to me.
Moreover I find that her behavior to this to be a bit of a non sequitur. If she wanted the publicity she could have just left it alone and said on her site..."hey look". If it was moral indignation, she could have made her request privately, and her post would have been removed, as it was, like others have. (I think Dawn Yang's was a few years ago, I maybe mistaken.)
The only logic I see is the "I'm a victim, look at me and while you're here at my site, buy a poster of me".
Lastly, I think her response to all of this
is an insult to intelligent lovely women; those that have charm, grace, personality, real character and truly enduring beauty.

Ya can't photo-shop or surgically enhance those qualities!!!

Okay guys: I should reiterate that my main motivation for doing this post is not to respond to Keo, but to spark some interesting discussion here. Comments like lordindra3's above are exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see, as I find the whole issue of pornography and its acceptability quite interesting in and of itself. And ironically, I agree with lordindra3 - I do personally find hardcore porn uncomfortable, which is a big reason why we don't have it here. And like him, I'm not sure why.

I couldn't resist - I've commented on Keo's blog. You can check it out if you're interested, although I didn't really cover anything I don't already cover here.

Not sure what all the fuss is about. Judging from their pictures it seems these two are lucky they are receiving any attention at all. It's doubtful that they would ever be featured on a website strictly for models.

Luckily, aside from the occasional Keo, you guys are doing a superb job in spotlighting asian beauties.

I have to admit I felt a little sorry for her at first, but having watched her twitter feeds and reaction regarding the incident, by this point she's just a whiny, hypocritical and annoying wanna be who'll never be. Let's move on.....

I was going to read those blogs, but I think my time would be better spent on writing an article, so that's what I did.

Asian Sirens may have porn ads, but it's not a porn site. Asian Sirens is an adult website. You will see some topless or naked women from time to time, but there's no sexually explicit/softcore/hardcore material that is directly on this site. It says it right it in the disclaimer that it's not allowed. And trust me, I help run a porn site. Asian Sirens is not a porn site.

But of course porn has nothing to do with someone requesting an article be taken down from here. I'm pretty sure most times it's due to reader comments such as mine.

Keo looks okay, but she's not hot enough for me to waste my time checking her out on YouTube or on anything else. That time would be better spent watching porn. And to see how things transpired is just sad, but she probably felt that she needed to get in the last word when she could have easily moved on. She should be happy that someone took the time to write about her because I wouldn't have.

And it would be nice to get everyone who was featured their okay before an article was posted, but if that was done, then there would be nothing to read on here because we would be waiting forever to get everyone's okay.

@Doc, in response to what you (and lordindra3) mentioned about feeling uncomfortable about hardcore
pornography...it seems that the extreme stuff doesn't seem to know any boundaries
always pushing the envelope towards being more outrageous and thus the feeling of darkness. Or the darkness of those is pushing the extremes. That's why this site doesn't even come close to me to being a porn site. There are boundaries and guidelines. The extreme stuff does give me the same sort of uneasy feeling and my mind and eyes don't want to go there again. But so called "straight on sex", nude models not at all.

Also kind of interesting how women themselves feel about it... again, when I was in Taipei, there was no shortage of adult stores; in the basement floor of the K Mall there was an adult store that sold animine and the Japanese porn and I saw a lot of guys with their girlfriends shopping together picking out adult movies. I am sure it occurs in the West, but it seems that Western women mostly buy it at a boutique that has it discreetly in the back with the sex aids. Wondering if you guys think it is an East -West thing. Women in the U.S. certainly can give you grief over something that is just NSFW like the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. My (real) girlfriend in Taipei bought for me at various times Ryoko Mitake, Akira Fubuki and Eriko Sato (the film actress -not the adult one by the same name) as well as others, calenders and photo-books, etc. Wondering why there seems to be more tolerance there about it. Is it religion or a desensitization? Or maybe I am over generalizing.

Is A-S porn? Hardly! No, I wouldn't surf this site at work or anywhere in public, but that doesn't make it porn. It is an adult site, certainly, but not porn,

As for porn, I don't have ANY problem with most of it, but there are some types that also make me uncomfortable, such as anything that implies or seems to imply coercion of the ladies involved (which would also include those that are underage).

"And it would be nice to get everyone who was featured their okay before an article was posted, but if that was done, then there would be nothing to read on here because we would be waiting forever to get everyone's okay."

This is the biggest deal for me. I'd be happy to email everyone first, and to be fair, we'd get a TON of "yes's." We get models emailing us all the time for a post, and the models we do email seem to be saying yes (in general). But the time it would take would be too difficult, and since most of the time we show models that have been featured on multiple other places across the Internet (this was a rule that I have for my own posts, unless we have the model's permission), issues like this do not come up very often. It's a shame when they do though because then they suddenly become big deal like it has now.

I find the comments here about hardcore porn interesting. As far as I'm concerned, yesterday's extreme is tomorrow's mainstream.

Having said that, personally I find nothing "dark", "evil", disturbing or sinister with respect to hardcore/extreme porn. I'm all for pushing the boundaries and I honestly feel I've desensitized myself from any kind of porn that is pedestrian in nature. In other words, watching two people do it in a missionary position just doesn't hack it for me. It used to though - very much so. This notion that I've actually affected my own tastes and turn-ons through years of watching porn intrigues me - and shocks me in a way.

I'm sure that some of the porn that I watch now would have surprised and perhaps disgusted me a number of years ago. But here I am watching stuff like <censored> do <censored> to <censored>. ^^;; My opinion on what is "extreme" and "hardcore" pornography has shifted vastly as my tastes have evolved (devolved?) with time. While I don't find much of what Sasha Grey does that interesting I'm not off-put by any of it - it simply doesn't float my boat. But next year? Who knows! It's a somewhat scary thought of where my tastes might have shifted to in the next ten years... lol

I suppose the bottom line is that I do not find anything "extreme" or "hardcore" to be inherently depraved and/or immoral. As long as there are consenting adults and consenting viewers... where's the harm?

When I think of porn sites, I think of harsh language, visual sexual displays, and an overload of ads that are shown sparingly on this site. I don't think AS as a porn site because it has none of those things in its content. It is certainly an adult site, just like Playboy is an adult magazine. I can't imagine anyone calling Playboy a porn magazine ... especially when there are nude art magazines out there that aren't considered porn either.

Glad you guys are taking the high road on this. Keep up the good work (and good taste).

Thanks for your comments on porn everyone. Perhaps RichG is on to something - I guess that for me, sex, nudity and sexuality in general are just natural things to be enjoyed by everyone, hence my opinion that the stigma attached to it is silly. However, porn often goes way beyond what would normally be considered natural, which I guess is what's uncomfortable for me. And ironically, I think the reason it does this is because we're so sexually suppressed, so we go for extremity to compensate.

Regarding the east vs. west thing, it's certainly true that Asians and westerners have different attitudes toward porn. There is a lot of country to country variation, however, and a lot of apparent contradictions and inconsistencies: for example, Japan is certainly the most sexually open country in Asia overall, yet they have pixellation in their porn videos! And in the west, Europe is a lot more sexually open than the US especially, particularly the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands.

@ RichG: I might be able to explain the different attitude between Chinese and Americans regarding porn. My wife is from Taiwan and I've lived both there and in Shanghai. Typically, porn in the States is more of a "single guy" thing though not only viewed by single guys (this has been changing over the years).

In the Chinese culture, porn is something couples, and mostly married couples at that, view to "spice up their life" so the intent is different and even the sex can be different, typically more of a storyline. They also try to appeal more to the woman's point of view since over there, it's usually women who purchase.

I've been sent porn via email from from friends and work colleagues who are single Chinese girls and have never even dated a man, since in that culture you don't date casually and many if not most don't date unless they are in love, so usually not until they are out of college and have known the guy as a friend for awhile. But porn is considered "fun" and not a big deal. The Chinese culture does not associate sex as an expression of "love" as much as it's "fun in the bed". The woman shows love by cooking good food and spoiling her husband. The husband shows love by working hard and making a lot of money for his wife to enjoy. There is no guilt feeling associated with sex and no real hangups. However, in the same breath they would not understand why anyone would have sex with someone they didn't love.

My wife has no problem with porn at all. She does prefer the ones with western guys and Asian women. ;-)

Another aspect to what Hakka Guy is talking about is that Chinese and Japanese have a "mistress culture". They do not have the same hang-ups about sex outside of a relationship as westerners, as long as it is with a professional. They accept the fact that when women have babies etc. they start to lose interest in sex, and it's okay for men to pay for it from a mistress (or a prostitute if he isn't as rich). Chinese women usually don't talk about it, but Japanese women actually openly encourage it!

@Hakka Guy: I agree with what you are saying. By the way, do you remember when Madoka Ozawa was trying to have a post-porn career in Taiwan? She was making an publicity appearance in Taipei and I was unable to get there and my GF offered to go and take some pics for me, had them printed and brought them by my apartment before a date, then spent time telling all about the event. (And yes, we were good friends quite awhile before we started dating-and she was a 'never been kissed girl" until after she finished her Masters and was 24.....so traditional in that regard.)

@Dr. Lee: Yes the country to country variations are there (Singapore-outwardly seems so conservative and Jack Neo is currently having his own Tiger Woods moment of infamy.) It just seems to me there is the "affront to all women kind everywhere attitude" in the West like the sexual revolution backfired on them and Eastern women who seem so traditional yet more enlightened.

AS is a far cry from a porn site. Porn is not tasteful. I think AS practically embodies refinement and a healthy approach to the subject. This is certainly not true in all cases, but I think of lot of the people who consider AS porn would also consider the display windows at Victoria's Secret porn or a Hooters swimsuit calendar.

Personally, I think sometimes we go too far to accommodate some of the ladies on this site. If they have content out there, its fair game in my mind. The internet is a public domain. I can't ask for something I put on the internet to be removed any more than I can ask a stranger to delete a pic off their camera if I happen to walk in front of their shot when they're taking it. In a case like this, I might not be happy about it, but I would respect AS's right to do so.

To me, Asian-Sirens isn't any more Porn than an R-rated or maybe even an NC-17 rated movie on HBO.

Damn it! OK where have you all been hiding the porn posts on me? Do I not have enough standing to merit such viewing pleasure yet?

Guys, Guys
I go on holiday for a fortnight and this happens
Ive been coming on this sight for a while and from what i've seen, I would hardly call it a porn site.

I just don't really see where she is coming from. Fair enough if her pictures were nudes and she didnt like it, but from what I can make out this isn't the case. She wasn't portrayed as a porn actress so she has gone a bit too far In my opinion.

Typical, petty Dr. Lee response. He can't get any of the types of pretty girls on this site, much less the types he trashes (and uses the general term "SoCal" or other). Beggars shouldn't be choosers. What a sad, sorry life. Thank you Dr. Lee. I can't hate you, you are too entertaining. You are my favorite.

Maybe Dr. Lee overreacted, but Keo certainly did. Anyways, the topic here was really about porn in general and specifically about whether or not Asian Sirens is a porn site.

Ignoring your poor grammar, how can you say there are no pretty girls on this site? That's just ludicrous. So, I find you pretty entertaining myself:-)

BTW, nobody is forcing you to continue being a member here or to visit the site.

Okay MaxPax: so why would I want to get any of the girls that - as you say - I am not attracted to anyway? And what would you know about what I can get (or have), as you obviously don't know me personally at all? Is it not sad to make pronouncements about that which you know nothing, just because I don't have the same taste in women as you?

Anyway, your comment is a personal attack, and as such is a clear breach of our posting guidelines.

LOL! She's put the following in red in her article:

"Comments seen on this post are made from people whom felt the need to post their concerns and protect me as A.S. is doing the same with the exposure of their comments and deleting posts that defend me."

Sorry Keo, but so far, there haven't been any posts defending you. As long as comments are within our posting guidelines, they will be posted, regardless of their opinion. This is in stark contrast to Keo's blog, who has blocked me from responding to her new entry, which personally attacks me. This is in spite of the fact that she said this in her article attacking CEC:

"In no manner am I trying to glorify my involvement with the A.S. website as there were no previous posts by me written about the matter before this one. And believe me, this will be the only post on the matter."

Her latest round of personal insults once again make it very clear that her real problem with being featured here was my comments about her blog, in spite of her constant denials. The fact that she was so deeply offended by what I said - as well as pretty much everything she's done since this article was posted - clearly demonstrates that she knows what I said was true.

Where are the pics?

tits or gtfo.

I like tits and turtles

Now Keo is claiming that we are making the girls featured here (and somehow, other girls too) the targets of sexual predators:

"There is a link on Cindy’s website that helps girls report sexual predators. Now that she is being featured on a pornographic website, I’m certain she and these other girls are going to need it because of the feature. Thanks for making them targets, Asian Sirens."

I originally thought Keo was just an egomaniac, but now I have to really question her sanity. At the very least, she is obviously highly obsessive.

Doc, despite our natural urges to want to call this girl out on every one of her lies, its like arguing with a child. You can't win because she won't present a rational argument. Anyone with half a brain can plainly see that most of her posts are ludicrous and have no merit. Let people judge for themselves. Just like in politics, there will always be a small group that buys into the conspiracy theories she is spouting, but most people will be repulsed by it.

You are absolutely right wylde8. Unfortunately though, the fact that she has now decided to harass the models featured on this site has meant I can't just ignore her, as innocent girls are now getting caught up in her crusade.

Doc, she's not the only one that is obsessing =P. I vote you just let it go. This wasn't that big a deal in the beginning.

Well I do have to admit that it has become kind of like watching the proverbial train wreck. :-)

Anyway, her harassment of the models featured here hasn't created any major problems so far.

I'd also like to think that even if she did ping the models, they would be the ones who would choose to heed or ignore her words.

Since you guys notify models of their inclusion on AS and are quick to remove them if they prefer not to be included, I think you've all built up enough credit so as to let them make an educated call on their own behalves. Don't sweat it, Lee.

Yep - so far (despite Keo's claims), they've chosen to ignore her, as they haven't asked that their profiles be taken down. I guess it just goes to show that even publishing somebody's emails can easily be manipulated and made to look misleading (as in the way she presented CEC's emails).

We should ignore her too.

Porn site, porn gateway or porn node? If you don't want to be on the internet don't pose for photos and sign a model release. Case closed.

I'm breaking along standing silence just to give my view. No I wouldn't call this site porn I would classify it as adult just as I would the blog "Tokyo Undressed" by Rikki Kasso. Booth sites include nude pictures but I have seen no sexual act shots here and that is not what is featured. You can (and I believe have) feature models that are clothed. As far as this person and their rantings I was not around for it and I will not be giving them a hit to read all of the back story. However if the person is on the internet and is of any level of intelligence then they know that the first thing about internet content and being a "celebrity" is that there is no anonymity and there is a loss of control. Simply put if you put yourself out there you will be seen and all that goes with it. This place is nothing to worry about, even the comments here are tame, the worst you might get is that there are people that don't care for you but you'll still pick up a lot of views, heck if there was a male version of this site that would feature me or be a one of those large people they feature on the news and shoot neck down while they talk about obesity I'd take the site hands down. P.S. What software does this site use for its blog?

Sadly, it uses the ancient pMachine (a decision made by Asian Sirens' original owner Marco, not myself). If I had my way, I would convert it to WordPress, but it's just way too much work now (and I've made a lot of modifications to make it fast and secure).