Why Do Slim Asian Girls Often Date Chubby Guys?

One observation that has come up repeatedly in the fora at Asian Sirens is the seemingly peculiar phenomonon of slim and attractive Asian girls dating relatively "chubby" (and often "geeky") guys, rather than the slim and so-called "cool" guys one might expect. And intriguingly, this seems to be particularly true of the Asian women who choose to date caucasians. Although it may seem bizarre, there are actually many good historical, cultural and biological reasons for this preference. So, after many requests for an explanation of this apparent oddity (and being a beneficiary of it myself!), I've decided to devote an article to the subject.

Like most sexual preferences, the ultimate root of this phenomonon is biological (although it has been reinforced by historical and cultural ideals). A clue lies in the fact that the Asian women who specifically choose to date caucasians often choose chubby guys. Obvioulsy, one of the reasons for this is practical: if a girl wants to date a chubby guy, there aren't too many chubby Asian guys to choose from! But there is also a relationship between a slim girl choosing to date a chubby guy, and an Asian girl choosing to date a caucasian: in both cases, they are driven by the biological imperitive to mix and balance the genes of their offspring. A child with mixed genes will in theory have greater resistance to disease, as the genetic weaknesses of a particular race will be diluted. By the same token, the opposite physical extremes of a small and slim Asian girl combined with a "big and strong" caucasian should theoretically result in more "balanced" offspring. Of course, in reality things are a lot more complicated than that (and I've simplified things quite a bit for this article), but you get the idea.

On the other hand, there is another conflicting biological instinct that comes into play when we choose a partner: fear of the unfamiliar. This dates back to when humans were more tribal, and often competed with eachother for more limited resources. Indeed, this instinct goes back to before we were even human, as most animals have to compete with eachother for food and territory. Also, when our species first evolved, we even competed with other species of hominids, such as the neanderthals (one of the leading theories for the extinction of the neanderthals is that we wiped them out). This instinct is the basis of racism and other forms of prejudice. Anyway, the upshot of this is, while our drive for genetic diversity attracts us to the exotic, fear of the unknown attracts us to the familiar. The end result for Asian women who date caucasians is that they usually prefer them to have "softer" features, as this makes them feel less "alien" than the classic sharp and "edgy" caucasian features. And of course, chubby guys are more likely to have softer features than slim guys.

There is also something else to the fact that the Asian girls who specifically date caucasians often choose chubby guys. Basically, chubby and "geeky" caucasians are more likely to have the sort of character that Asian women tend to prefer. The fact of the matter is, they very often treat women with a lot more respect than most slim and so-called "cool" guys. Caucasian women may be famous for wanting to be treated like dirt, but most Asian women are a lot more sensible than that. (On a personal note, this is the number one reason why I normally prefer Asian women to caucasians.) They actually want - and expect - their men to behave responsibly, and show them some basic respect. And amongst caucasians, they are often more likely to find the sort of character they want in a chubby and/or geeky guy than in a slim and/or "cool" guy.

There is also yet another personality trait associated with chubby guys that Asian women are usually attracted to, which is exemplified by the Chinese Buddha statue above. Basically, chubbiness is associated with a happy, jolly character, which Asian women traditionally find attractive (this really works in my favour too, as I tend to laugh a lot!). What's more, Asians have historically associated chubbiness with wealth and strength, which of course are attractive features as well. So traditionally, Asian women perceive chubby men as being strong, happy and wealthy. Conversely, it is considered attractive for Asian women to have a slender and delicate build, as it conveys femininity and elegance (and once again helps to keep the gene pool balanced). Of course, the more modern and westernised Asian women become, the less they tend to feel this way. But luckily for we chubby guys, there are still many beautiful Asian women who adhere to these traditional values - even if they are modernised in other ways!

A very big thankyou to Christine, who Photoshopped together the title pic for this article, but who unfortunately prefers slim and fit guys. ;-)

hey Lee, can you give photo credits in the article? I don't want Getty and wherever the images came from to get angry at us! ;)

interesting post! but as the article mentioned, i'm into slim & fit guys :D but i think really that that's because i just put in so much time at the gym or i've invested so much in my fitness that i would be disappointing to date someone that wasn't as equally interested in it as i am, or actually holds me back from my goals.

speaking of fitness, yours truly just ran a 6:34 minute mile today! first time i've timed myself since middle school. sooo proud.

I am a former 4:42 miler.I did this in padded American Football leotards.I run much less these days.Last week I just wanted to see if my body could still cash those checks that my ego still likes to write. 7:05...and I was certain that I saw THE AFTERLIFE-horns,flames,and Ford Pintos included.Chose life.I'll be happy if I can get it back under 5:59.

Yeah...TODD is usually a tad on the chubby and un-athletic side...but that's the LEAST of his problems.

i don't see much of this at all, this seems kind of unfounded. most asian couples i see the two usually have a similar body type suitable to each other but then again at my age everybody's still a bit shallow and maybe it's cuz of geographical location too (i'm about 20ish and live around toronto, canada) but i really honestly don't see a lot of slim asian girls go for chubby guys. in fact myself i'd like to think the girls i become romantically involved with -- if they're asian they're typically maybe a bit bustier and curvier than your typical skinny asian (i think there's more out there than one would expect yes with natural assets too), me myself i'm a naturally slim asian guy but i work out regularly (the largest i've been is about 175 pounds and i'm about 5'10") but i guess this is just my preference too. i even see this in asian interracial couples too no lie. sorry to burst your bubbles chubby guys.

aw WOW, 4:42! were you competitive? high school or college track team? i am so jealous! :(

i know what you mean by the afterlife LOL - i swear when i was running i wasn't going to make it. like *gasp* just *gasp* a few *gasp* more *gasp* yards!!! arghahhahdflkjaknzvlkja

lol @ todd, but lee - if we were biologically 'programmed' to want to even out the gene pool, how come after so many years for evolutionary change, so many - perhaps a majority? - asian girls still have such small frames? after a few generations, wouldn't the gene pool have evened out sufficiently to put asian girls at a sort of "average"? i mean, if the asian girls were going after the bigger asian guys, then eventually we'd see more and more people of larger proportions, right?

additionally, being that chubbiness sometimes isn't a matter of genes but just lifestyle (perhaps sedentary, too high caloric intake), why would we be biologically inclined to this? i mean, i always thought that our instincts would want us to choose the leanest, most strong guys in the 'pack,' because they'd be most effective at helping the family survive (thinking back to the caveman days). i always thought that being chubbier was viewed as a good thing due to culture -- eventual perception that more fat meant more food, and likely more money.

Greetings! an interesting article... is it possible to see/read it in its entirety? The perception of "dating, chubby, attractiveness" is relative... Who can explain chemistry but the parties involved? Personally, i find tall, fit, lean, toned, athletic-built male species much more appetizing...

oooh cat-tien, "species" and "appetizing!" looks like the guys aren't the only carnal ones here, eh? hahaha

cat-tien, i think it is difficult to separate what is truly attraction - intrinsic biological attraction - and attraction that is influenced by external sources, like what our culture tells us is sexy or however our own personal experiences may negatively/positively impact our views. i think one point that lee was trying to drive home was that our attraction to chubby guys (if we are attracted to chubby guys at all) is a biological instinct in response to a need to balance our gene pool.

though i 100% agree with you in that all of these things are relative and no one will truly know except the dating pair, i do wonder if there is a scientific base to a preference for chubby men, and if, with asians, there really is some sort of overwhelming attraction to chubby men (a statistic, perhaps, that would say which nationalities are attracted to chubby men, from which we could begin considering cultural and biological factors with merit)

I find this whole thread to be very amusing. It is sooo typical of guys looking at attraction from a guys point of view i.e. guys base their attraction mostly on looks. From a woman's point of view looks are not nearly as important for attraction. Women look for confidence, and other personality traits. They may notice physical traits, but the real decision is based on their sense of confidence or how they FEEL when they are around a man. Christine, please tell me if I am way off base here.

i agree with you zscore about personality. i had this huge crush on a barista that worked at a local coffee shop, who i had come to see often because i studied there a lot. i found him really physically attractive, but upon talking to him and seeing that he had such low self-esteem, everything was just shot. i didn't even think he was hot anymore.

conversely, i met this guy in my class who i didn't really like physically at all at first, but he had a lot of charisma and he was so sociable and confident, comfortable around people... i developed this weird crush on him even though he was skinnier than me, shorter than me, and just generally not very goodlooking. as an added bonus though, i did see him after the course ended at the gym and he had a tight six-pack, which kinda added to my crush a teensy bit.

to drive the point home: there's this guy in one of my classes that likes me right now. he isn't bad looking, but he's really not my type and i just don't find him really all that attractive. i was considering it, however, upon talking to him, i discovered his life kind of revolves around SCHOOL and that was a total turnoff - i just thought, hello? do you have any other interests outside of doing math problems? i bet you sit there at night and instead of like, looking at porn, you have your dick out jerkin' it to archimedes. gross.

personality is a complete dealbreaker. had he actually had a better personality, i would've seriously considered it (after i made him shave off his gnarly goatee/beard/thing).

keep in mind i can't speak for all girls! shallow girls are out there! don't let them scare you into thinking we're all that way :D

(ironically, the barista i found attractive wasn't exactly lean with a muscular build. he was kinda soft :) but not chubby -- it was somewhere between chubby and thin, like the average of the two.)

NEVER ran track.At the schools I went to 4:42 would put you butt-naked last.Played H.S. football...College baseball...minor league baseball.

Asian women-regardless of ethnicity seem more tuned in to a mans' ability to provide.Other people may view this as Golddigging.Tough.It just so happens that in modern times the geek/screen jockey is pulling down hefty stamps.He gets the girl...and she could'nt be happier.Way to go TODD.Still hate u.

HAHAH i think it gets harder to distinguish todds from non-todds if you go fishin' in the businessmen/professionals pool... todds don't really look like todds anymore when they're dressed in navy pinstripe business suits with some freshly shined shoes and smart cufflinks. men look damn good in uniform/suits regardless of their appearance. it's like appearance x 10.

Wow, this one's gotten quite a response! I'll try to respond to everyone's points.

christine: Can you tell me the credits for your image again? I just cleaned out my mailbox on Monday!

Regarding your main point, what you say is valid as far as it goes, and is a result of the oversimplification I refer to in my article. For one thing, what we are attracted to doesn't necessarily pan out in practice (otherwise the average woman's bust size would be ten times what it is now!). We have to make do with what is available, and the vast majority of the men that Asian women have had access to for millenia have been on the small and slim side. Indeed, the rarity is a big part of the attraction: once it becomes more commonplace, tastes change, as has already happened in the west (as we've gotten fatter, our ideal body image has become slimmer). This is yet another example of how nature prevents things from getting too extreme.

The other factor is that the sexes act somewhat independently of eachother when conveying physical characteristics to their offspring - otherwise men and women would end up looking the same! So as long as slim women are selected for, women will stay slim, barring the lifestyle factors you mention, which of course is becoming a bigger and bigger factor in determining people's actual weight. And as I say in my article, the cultural factor you mention is a major one, but like most such things it is ultimatlely based on biology (which culture often blows out of proportion!).

yangbwoi: As my article states, there aren't too many chubby Asian guys to choose from, so it is only natural that most Asian couples should both be slim. I'm often surprised by how often the most petite Asian girls (particularly Chinese) tend to pick up one of the few chubby Asian guys that are available though! Anyway, there must be a basis for the perception in my article, otherwise it wouldn't have been commented on so often here!

zscore: The whole point of my article is that Asian women's attraction to chubby guys is not based on physical factors alone. Indeed, I think my main point is that it is the personality traits associated with chubbiness that attract these women, more than chubbiness itself. Ironically, it seems to me that it is the ladies commenting here who like slim and fit guys who are really into the physical. ;-)

Oh, one thing I forget to mention: the biological predilection for "balanced" offspring is why you often see very short women with very tall guys - and vice versa! Something that is universally considered attractive by a given culture will be selected for (such as slim women), but we have a natural instinct to stop things from getting too extreme (such as these extremes of height).

Doc - Good article, I like it. I especially liked the fact that you drew upon the connection of 'wealth and happiness' are related to body weight.

I remember being out with my girlfriend in Bangkok years back and commenting on a rather large fellow, she responded, "No problem, him happy!"

Months later we were at an HSBC in Hong Kong waiting in line and I noticed she was kind of staring at a women whose arse was the size of a Ford Pinto (props to STRPES for feuling the analogy), and I leaned close to my girl, and whisper in Thai the equivelent of, "She VERRRRY happy!"

She laughed so hard that she was in tears and had to wait for me outside.

Your article made me remember that - so kudos! :)

STRIPES and everyone else: Good comments, I agree in many regards. For example I agree with Cristine that it is kinda dissapointing to take fitness seriously and date someone who doesn't. By the same token I would point out that Christine lives in America where the average food/portions/diet is monsterous - one has to watch their diet and workout to stay fit. While in Asia and Asians themselves have a much healtier diet by in large. For this reason, Asia girls can eat 3-4 times a day thier diet of 'leaves and twigs' (I joke, I joke - me and my buddies have always joked about that with our Thai missuses) and still stay tiny. No workout required, thus the workout/dedication to fitness is less of an issue in Asia proper.

Also Christine/Lee, as to your questions about crediting the image, note that the image already bares the watermark of Getty. Moreover, Christine you stylized by adding the thought bubbles - giving rise to the 'derivitaive works' outlet to copyright. I know a teensy bit about intellectual property as my China Barbie article implies. :)

Oh, one last thing, who is the 'Todd' fellow a few of you are railing on? Is this some type of inside joke I am missing?

Okay, as a slim and fit Asian model who Lee is obviously very familiar with, I thought I'd better comment on this one - after all, I am well known for liking chubby geeks! Basically, I feel completely the opposite way to Christine: because I put so much effort into staying in shape, when I'm with a guy who does the same, it stresses me out! Exercise is hard work; when I'm with a guy, I want to relax. And a guy who isn't a fitness freak makes me feel more able to just forget about all that hard work and enjoy eating, which is my favorite thing to do!

Another factor is purely physical: because I have a hard body, I want to cuddle something a little bit soft - hugging another hard body just doesn't feel good! I should point out though, I don't want a flabby guy - that's too much. But I like my man to be a little bit "round" (to me that makes him look kind of like a cute baby!), and I want him to have a nice bit of padding - because there's only two points on my body that have any. ;-)

Sachiko - duly and positively - and with bated breath - noted. :)

matthew mcconaughey's photo was from people magazine, the main image (of the asian girl) and the photo of the chubby guy are from gettyimages.

I simply want to say, let's not examine this too closely and just be thankful that it is.

:#)

The reason is very simple: Asian girls can have lots and lots of skinny good looking guys at home in Asia. So when they choose to date a white guy, they want to have the "original" style. chubby with lots of body hair.

Actually, in my experience Asian women are turned off by excessive body hair: this is another one of those things that can make them feel too "alien".

Regarding "Todd", it is an expression supposedly "cool" and fit guys use to jealously deride we chubby geeks who get hot Asian girls a lot more easily than they do. ;-)

In this article Dr. Lee tries to imply that I can't get asian women. Well, that's so wrong Doc. :)

At least christine and cat-tien lean for my side. :)

I like chubby but not beer belly chubby
and I like fit and lean but overly muscular either.
Also I wanted to note that many of the other asian women I know who are married or in some sort of relationship with a non-asian guy are 5 to 10 years younger than the guys. And these are the women who where born and raised in asian countires. These older men are all on the chubbier side beign in their late thirties to early fifties. So I dont think that it is just the fact of wanting to balance out but these are the kinds of western men that are introduced to these asian woman.
Just my thoughts on it.
This topic also reminds me of something my little brother once said " Why is it so much eaier for a white guy to date asian girl that it is for a asian guy to date a white girl?" He's 14.
Good article, wonderful site.

Thanks Apsara! And you do have a valid point. I guess the bottom line is, there are many reasons for this phenomonon.

This post certainly seems to be one for the ladies - let's have all our Asian female visistors' opinions on this issue, shall we?

Honestly doc, I think you've created a phenomenon where one does not exist. I don't know if you are simply basing your observations on life in Sydney, but I can assure you that what you have posited simply does not hold for California, where I have seen Asian/Caucasian couples well into the thousands.

Nor does it for Japan, based on the several years I lived there. In fact, I distinctly remember my "chubbier" friends grumbling over the difficulty they had in getting dates while the slender guys were living an extremely good life.

Firstly, I was asked to do this article by our predominately American readers, so they obvioulsy observe this phenomonon. Of course not all Asian women are this way, but many are.

Secondly, what you say of Japan is now largely true, due to the fact that most Japanese girls are now so westernised when it comes to these matters. But traditional Japanese do still often have this preference (hence the proviso in my article) - there just aren't very many of them around these days!

Honestly, Doc, I think you covered most of the bases, and pretty well, I think.

But, in the final analysis, it's really individual. If you watch US TV, apparently great looking young White women are mad for chubby and older guys.

While this is certainly not true of all fit and attractive men (and, to a degree women), many beautiful specimens are very uninteresting. Partially, I think, this is due to them spending so much time thinking about themselves and being concerned on how they LOOK to others.

I worked in Hollywood and lived in Manhattan Beach for several years. You can walk to the local market (Moon's, for those in the area) and see women who look like Playboy centerfold markets. To my surprise, they were not snobby at all. They also were not interesting, at all. The men were worse...pretty dim, and self centered, bulbs.

Women, being (in general) stronger, smarter and more perceptive than men, and who have been treated like garbage by shallow jerks, are a little more likely to drop the quest for self-centered assholes, and enjoy themselves with someone they REALLY enjoy spending time with.

Add the specifically Asian factors you mention, and you can see how that might account for this happening a little more with Asian women, then with women in general.

Anyway, chubby guys like me can be thankful that beautiful women can sometimes be attracted to a man that may, at first glance, appear to be out of our league. We can be extra-thankful that these women tend to be more intelligent and have a much better sense of humor than those "Playmates" who are as self-centered and vapid as the men they date.

Yeah, I think you've basically hit the nail on the head (and I alude to this in my article): for sensible women (which Asian women mostly are), character is far more important than looks. Because chubby guys feel luckier to have a babe, they usually treat them nicer. And ironically, pretty boys often end up with bimbos and less attractive women, because they really need a pretty guy to boost their ego in front of others. A quality woman doesn't need this, and indeed often doesn't want it - she doesn't want her man taking the attention away from her! :-)

Most Asian women I see around here are with Asian men, a rich guy, or some malnourished white kid with a bad hair cut, crooked baseball cap, and flip-flops.

All the Asian women I know who were born and raised in Asia would find a fat guy to be somewhat repulsive. It would say to them "undisciplined, unhealthy, out of countrol." These women, while far from being knockouts or model material, would be considered average in their home countries yet stand out in the US as really quite something.

I thought this article was out of nowhere. But all the women with the exception of Christine appear to like chubby guys. And this makes me remember that my Chinese ex said she liked rounder guys (I'm tall and slender). So there is something to this.

Perhaps it's the converse of why I think I like petite pretty women: you can't help feeling like a man with them. Maybe the chubby man (the provider) makes the little lady feel like a woman.

I'll agree with Clint though, here in Cal it's mixed, I've seen you chubby lads with the Asian women, but they're just part of the interracial mix.

Agreed on all counts Bubalabobo. When I talk about Asian women, I mean the Asian women born and raised in Asia (with the current exception of Japan). I strongly suspect those "SoCal" Asians (i.e. those born and raised in California) will also have western taste, hence Clint's perception. It is notable that many of these girls also have a western style, including being relatively chubby for Asian women (look at all the chubby Asian import models, for example). And yes, traditional Asian women do perceive "big" men as being strong and manly.

Hmpf... I guess based upon Doc's explanation that you can call me 'Todd'...

No worries... :)

Who cares what people call us when we've got the babes? ;-)

i never understood why so many gorgeous asian girls dating white geeks, guess they got a good job and therefore $$ yet, most asian guys have good jobs, so it might be the respect factor, cause asian men are much more dominant than white guys and asian women are much more dominant than white woman.

Ha! Good one Doc! :)

wow... quite amusing on this thread... finally something raw & cerebral... hi Christine... you comments were quite perspicacious... i don't think it's a genetic predisposition that slim/plum combo is to balance out the gene pool... the concept of beauty, attractiveness/attraction, preference for one's physique is often personal & culturally specific... social stratification & social economic status do play a crucial role in coupling and/or mate selection... human beings (majority) are visual & sexual creatures... we tend to gravitate toward mates who are similar and
choose those who can optimize our procreating probabilities/genetic variation... so if fluffy/alpha male who who appears to possess a prowest of being then he has more capabilities of attracting a wider selection of mates... i would choose a slightly pudgy yet well-groomed male with education & reasonable s.e.s. over just a beef-cake...

oops... typo...it's male prowess that wets my appetite... ok... i am with you Christine in picking a lean, well-cut & (raw) beef :)

THIS IS WRONG, and this isn't always true in ASIANS, in general Girls / Women date and marry the guys for a lot of reasons, money, looks, maturity and last but not least...personality, alot of women attracted to personality and don't care about the looks , since everybody does not look or has money like brad pit or angelina jolie...so any man with good personality OR any man with alot money will DO to the women, LOOKS (FAT /SKINNY)OR AGE don't really matter to women, here is why :
http://photos.exposay.com/Hugh_Hefner/

http://www.melaniatrump.com/pictures/

Nobody said that Asian women always date chubby guys - just that slim and attractive Asian women do it a lot more then you might expect. And we know it's mostly about personality - that's what my article says! Unfortunately, the people who are saying this is "wrong" don't appear to have read my article, and are ignoring all the other people here who have independently confirmed this phenomonon (which is why I wrote this article in the first place!).

BTW, I am the perfect example of this article, but not because of I am chubby, because she loves my personality :
http://flickr.com/photos/10596256@N04/916824879/

Interesting how Asian guys in particular seem to be taking offence at this article! Stands to reason I guess. ;-)

Doc, no offense, that's the beauty of this great ASIAN blog.we admire and critize, chill out , here is to post materials to cheer you up, peace out :
http://www.babeblvd.com/

Hotbyte (a/k/a: "Todd"), you're right - chill.

And send more links like the last one... :)

interesting and relevant to the discussion but not representative of all women, here's a study

Re: Why Do Slim Asian Girls Often Date Chubby Guys?

They do! YES!!!! *happy dance* heh, I'll be back later with more actual insight but It'll probably come down to the fact that chubby and geeky are booth sets of guys that tend to by loyal, genital, and loving. Now if we can get rid of that Caucasian qualifier I'm in like Flin!

i still think that in general, the toned/muscular guys are going to win out vis-a-vis physical attractiveness over the chubby guys. do you think that it is safe to say that while a lot of [asian] women go for chubby guys, much more women are into the toned/muscular look? or, is the claim of this article that traditional asian women would choose chubby guys over the lean/muscular guy, making the chubby frame the preferred body type?

it's still completely wrong if you are trying to connect the dots..Christine, the physique only has little to do with the romance part, it's just in general..asian women are slim...while most men don't focus on building muscular or hard rock body and most importantly we love eating beef and drinking beer (like they all say men are pigs..). but nobody is perfect. if every slim asian women dreamt of having the muscular, rich and handsome guy...and there is not enough of those men around ...since most men are average looking...some chubby.....but there are some who are funny...old..wealthy...powerful...and some KNOW HOW to pick up girls, do we agree boys??

is safe to say that while a lot of [asian] women go for chubby guys, much more women are into the toned/muscular look?

No not at all, there have been many articles recently that have said the same thing, the thin is out, but thats just a catch phrase.

Of course these articles could be complete crap but its all in how or why you break down the numbers. There is the guy that you have fun with, there is the guy that you show around to friends. Then there is the guy that you make plans with, the guy that you marry and start a family with. Not having read the article yet I'm assuming that the mind set of most of the women studied weren't looking just for a good time guy. The same thing could be said about women but thanks to a few social studies and shows like beauty and the geek or what have you (death to them all I say) these geeky and pudgy guys are less likely to be jerks and wavering, you could take it further and say that also they might be more... eager and appreciative of your company too...

Its possibly the fact that I don't get out at all but from my small reports of life I can not confirm any of this extra attraction. I can tell you about personal facts of myself and the that I do believe I'm different from the "average man" however none that would matter much without an outside non-bias review. I can tell you that no matter how much I think I'm different, how many people have told me I am or written stay sweet in my year books etc etc, all of it has amounted to a hill of beans. Not tasty baked beans either.

This is a very interesting article, but I haven't seen Asian women with chubby guys to the point where I say that it happens often because I don't see that out here on the East Coast, so maybe geography plays more of a role in this. The Asian women that I see are mostly with a nice White guy who's slim but either not so cool or geeky or with a normal Asian guy.

I can see the reasoning behind this because a chubby guy will likely have many of the qualities that an Asian woman is looking for when she is looking for someone to settle down with. I don't think chub plays much of a factor when it comes to an Asian woman looking for someone to marry but does when it comes to looking for someone just to date because people are going to be more superficial when it comes to dating. I also don't see any of these young Asian girls out here with any chubby guys which is why I think geography plays more of a role.

When I'm in Thailand, I see chubby farangs with skinny girls but that has more to do with the age disparity than with choosing someone who is chubby.

On a side note, I was flipping channels a few months ago and I stopped on this VH1 because there was this Asian chick with a hot ass body. So I had to stop and watch. It happened to be this couple from Chicago on this show called My Big Fat Fabulous Wedding and they ended up spending $500k on this wedding. What's sad is that Patrick goes on and on about how wonderful Tammie is but all Tammie talks about is how wonderful the wedding is and how wonderful the crystal hanging from the trees look and barely shows Pat any love.

Great link Christine - you really know how to do your research! :-) I think the results of the study are representative of caucasian women, but not necessarily Asian. And even then, the chubby guys were rated highest for commitment. I think Asian women are more keyed into this than caucasians, to the point where - in combination with the factors mentioned in my article - they actually do often find chubby men more physically attractive than slim guys. For them, there is less distinction between physical attractiveness and character than there is for caucasian women.

The reason why this occurs isn't biology. It's because quite a few Asian women today have White WORSHIP, self hate, and see Caucasian people as being of higher status. Some want to date White so bad that they'll date any White guy who is bald, old, fat, wimpy, or ugly. Some of these White guys, not all, are fat because they may be social rejects by White women, and find they have an easier time wooing Asian women (due to reasons I explained above).

Well maverick4, this post isn't about why Asian women date white guys - it's about why they date chubby guys. My comments extend to the relatively few Asian men who are chubby. Also, your idea does not explain why Asian women often seem to prefer chubby white guys - if what you say is true, then why wouldn't they prefer slim white guys? It's not like chubby guys are the only ones they can get. As you can see from the comments above (like Sachiko's), the preference of many Asian women for chubby guys is real.

i had to activate my password just to reply. so i will take my time to tell u all why asian women date what they date. asian women think money comes first before love. asian women think as long as the guy is making good money they might be able to learn to love a guy. asian women date chubby guys and other non good looking men because they are usually more loyal. it is like a woman that dates a much older man. they think old men or fat men are more set in life. the woman wants to become the stay at home mother while the man goes out and works. asian women and non asian women usually think the better looking a man is the more likely he will cheat. another reason asian women will go for the ugly guy is low self esteem she might have. i don't know what it is but when i tell a woman of any race that she is pretty they never believe me. so it looks like low self esteem to me. another thing i noticed about the asian women i asked out is they tell me about suicide attempts for different reasons. parents also are also a big influence why asian women date what they date. if the parents are strict the daughters will more likely go for gang member type punks. if the asian parents are more nice the daughter will date the ncer guy. so i think mostly that asian parents are in some way a big influence on asian girls dating the fat ugly guys.

Interesting how the guys who resent the fact that a lot of Asian women date chubby guys accuse them of having "low self esteem". I don't think that's the case at all - they are simply very sensible and practical in how they choose men. Responsibility, kindness, and (yes) money are all far more important to them than a guy's looks, and chubby guys more frequently have those qualities than slim and fit guys. That's not low self esteem - that's just common sense. And I also have to say, chubby (in this case at least) does not necessarily mean ugly!

i am not chubby or skinny i am more in the middle. but when i am nice at all to asian and non asian women they sometimes think i am a player. other asian women think i don't make enough money for them. so for me its usually been the money that has made me lose out with asian women. then i get the friends speech. usually i run into the girl later with some old man or huge sumo sized guy. i just don't get it.

Those crazy sumo's...always male genitalia blocking.

Candyman, what a story. And so true. Many, many times, women are after the wedding fantasy not the marriage (the thing that comes after), lol

Should I get a bit chubby? Oh wait, then christine and cat-tien would be out of my picture...

'Caucasian women may be famous for wanting to be treated like dirt'. Excuse me? They do?!?!

thecr0w, perhaps your experience is restricted to Asians who were not brought up in Asia itself. My experience - and that of others - is that if you are nice to Asian women, they will be nice to you. Or perhaps what you mean by "nice" isn't the level of responsibility they are after. The same does not hold true of caucasian women however - there have been many books written on the fact that you should treat caucasian women like crap if you want to get them. IMHO, they are the ones who have self-esteem problems - not Asian women.

So I've got a question, what is exactly what we are calling chubby here? I ask this one because it is a valid question but two because I can't even start to think of what might be considered "chubby" here, I've seen that term thrown at women lately for to me no good reason. Maybe because I'm HUGE but I can say that my weight specifications has changed in the not too distant past.

So whats chubby, whats slim, whats fat, and what OMG HUGE (thats me) I'm sure we can google up example links.

I think the title pic gives you an idea of what I mean by chubby. I certainly don't mean huge in this case!

Dr. Lee, this issue of chubby White guys dating slim Asian girls DOES relate to Asian women with self hate and White worship. They basically see dating White as some sort of prize, even if the guy is bald, old, fat, or wimpy. Fat/wimpy/old/nerdy White men have realized that for "some reason" they have much more success with Asian women. So voila, you have this combination. Don't try to inflate your egos with genetic theory. This is a widespread phenomenon of self hate, inferiority complex towards White people, and White worship. You would not believe how many Asian women I've heard say self-racist things, or express a desire to have half-White babies with non-Asian eyes.

Maverick - Dude..? "Self-hate"? I thought at first that it might be just that the term 'hate' might be too strong; but even when I replaced it with 'dislike' or 'dissatisfaction' it is still wrong.

To some extent you are right that Asian women choose outside thier culture in an opportunistic way, but this comes back to Lee's argument about money and better lifestyle. You also point out that some Asian women think that mixed culture babies are all the rage these days, but again this has an angle on the genetic arguement Lee presented.

[Most] Asian women are not negative about themselves or thier culture, but instead are put off by the opportunities within their own culture; poor men, men with gender-discriminative tendancies, or extended families that treat them like baby-making concubines.

There are reasons for any person to question their own cultures, but it does not mean they are 'self-hating.'

hello all!i'm new and,by the way,love the site!
I just feel i wanted to comment on this.
my experience is the opposite of what's described,but also validates several points....
i'm an american mutt,thirty-something and on the slender side.my lovely girlfriend is filipina,twenty-something and definitly not slender...more towards the "more to love"body type.
i'm sure i fit into the "todd"description...i build home theaters and music systems,and i'm a sci-fi geek,i'm sure.
what i will say is that we are dating because we honestly like each other...not for what i can provide,or what she can do for me.
living in the northeast US,there seems to be no shortage of shallow,opportunistic american girls..so when i met my girlfriend...who is smart,funny,strong,self-reliant and genuinly sweet..it was a breath of fresh air!
as for self hating?hmmm..i've also lived in AZ for several years and have a few filipino friends that still live there...none of the women i know were self hating.they were warm,caring and giving,with a strong sense of pride in who they were.
and as for babies?..i sure hope when we get to that point that they have her good looks and her eyes!she's beautiful!
it wasn't money,or being "GQ" that won her over..it was me being honest and real,and treating her with respect.
she is a strong woman,she wouldn't have it any other way!

Maverick4, you are still missing the point. I'll try and make it more obvious for you:

1) As I said, traditional Asian women often prefer chubby Asian guys as well - there just aren't that many of them around!

2) Once again, your idea would only explain why some Asian women date caucasians; it does not explain why they specifically choose chubby caucasians - they could choose slim guys if they wanted to. Indeed, as many Japanese are quite modern, they usually do choose slim guys!

Actually, the case of modern Japanese really blows your case out of the water. White guys really are "cool" for them - yet they choose slim guys! The kind of Asian women who prefer chubby guys are more traditional - caucasians are seductive for them (for all the reasons I mention in my article), but actually dating a caucasian is a fairly radical thing to do for them.

I have to say this: it seems to me that you are the one who has low self-esteem. You express your jealousy so as to put down those whom you think are responsible for your sexual frustration. But given your closed-mindedness about issues such as this one, it really isn't a surprise that you have problems understanding women. I think your frustration actually comes from yourself.

I have to say that I take offence at Maverick4's comments. As you can imagine, I can have any guy I want: slim and fit guys of all races come on to me all the time! But I really prefer chubby guys, for all the reasons Lee mentions as well as the ones I mention in my comments above. And I can definitely say I would never date a guy who has such low self-esteem, is as closed-minded or who harbours as much hatred toward women like me as Maverick4. Interestingly, I often find slim guys are like this - yet another reason I prefer chubby guys!

That story is funny daznlover. I first thought that maybe this guy is trying to fulfill some Asian fantasy because Tammie is way out of his league, but he's truly in love with her. Tammie is only concerned with how she looks and how the wedding is going. You can't spend $500k on a wedding to marry someone who barely shows you any affection, so I hope Pat has a prenup.

And these slim Asian girls need to show the chubby Brothas some love. I have all that and MORE to love too.

Many modern (younger generation) Japanese do indeed choose 'cool', yet not just white, black as well if not more so, as popularity of the American hip-hop culture over the past decade or so has largely informed the definition of "cool". I think, too, as mentioned above, that the choice to date or court cross-culturally of brings together two people who are looking for the same thing, or rather the same difference with regard to local (cultural) alternatives.

I've never dated any asian guys eventhough i'm attracted to some.
I grew up in Asia and even when i was there, i never date any asian guys.
I guess i'm attracted to other races because i want to have beautiful babies.
Children from mixed parentage are always beautiful (90% of the time).

Dr. Lee, The Buddha picture is very
cute. It reminds me of my boyfriend who has the buddha bell, I rub his belly all the time, i think it's so cute.

QED, Doc.

sooo not true, cantik. i've seen a lot of ugly mixed babies. it can happen.

hahaha bubalabobo. quod erat demonstratum indeed.

QED indeed! ;-)

And Christine, you've fallen into the same trap a lot of other critics of this article have. Cantik didn't say all mixed babies are attractive, but that the chances that they will be attractive are very good, which I think is true (although I have certainly seen some pretty unattractive ones as well!).

when i said "a lot" i meant to negate her statement that 90% of them are goodlooking. soooo not true. of the ones i've seen, it's definitely more like 60% turn out above average

(though, to be honest, the primary reason they were unattractive was probably less due to the fact that they were ugly and moreso because they were really stocky/had bad bodies. so maybe cantik can regulate her babies' weight and then her children will have a 90% chance of being muy attractive)

maybe 90% is too high. there are unattractive ones, but they are definitely not ugly...maybe average or below average, but not ugly. BUT my future babies going to be HOT....;)...got to have asian skin, body type and hair and the rest can follow the caucasian gene. although it would be weird to have non brown eyes on a half asian person....

"Interestingly, I often find slim guys are like this - yet another reason I prefer chubby guys!"

thank God... one for the fluffy guys :)

"Nor does it for Japan, based on the several years I lived there. In fact, I distinctly remember my "chubbier" friends grumbling over the difficulty they had in getting dates while the slender guys were living an extremely good life."

two words "sumo wrestlers" or is it one word :) they are sex symbols in japan... big fat and sometime jolly :)

" i would choose a slightly pudgy yet well-groomed male with education & reasonable s.e.s. over just a beef-cake... " wow Cat, I guess me and doc would qualify to get your number :) i still get headaches reading your comments though...too many big words :)

oh LawBoy... a little headache due to learning is good for your heart, soul & intellectual growth... now... go & eat your words re: ao dai :)
sure... you can have my number iff you can pass my husband & 10 kids...

10 kids..wow you must catholic :))

It seems cat-tien takes time to forgive. :)

Cat-tien is a delicious tease....

You guys have it all wrong..the bigger the white guy the bigger his Di Di is...Thats what they want....Wheres the beef..... In Chubby White guys thats where...

Chubby they like Chubby! all these years I thought it was my Face....

Isn't it racism to say, Asian women like this, white women like that? Probably they both like the same....

Probably NOT

No evilkneevel, that is not racism by any reasonable definition.

I'm a fat bastard, topping off at a clean 392 lbs and I'm 6'5"...I played football for years and years. But it's not muscle per se but the ravages of too much take out and hours upon hours of playing Halo 2.

Our culture, that is to say American culture places too much emphasis on how someone looks as the end all be all of that human being. In a world of fast paced lives and even faster paced sexuality...it's easy to not stop and smell the roses so to speak.

Nowadays it's simple to look at a fat person and say "Well they're not worth it, they're obviously lazy because they're fat." But that's not always the case. That fat guy that you are in the corner making fun of with your friends might be the funniest and most charming sunovabitch you've ever met in your life, but because of your predisposition to make fun of people that are different from your idea of perfection...you'd miss out on some pretty witty conversation and perhaps a joke or three.

Give fat people a chance, they might suprise you.

You know I was going to end it there but I have to go off on a small rant. I see it alot nowadays...as a big man. ((Or a man of much food intake as I like to be called.)) There is this tendency in people that are physically superior to scoff at me or stand up to me in public and be hurtful ((or at least it would be if I gave a shit)) towards me in an effort to make themselves look cool. When in reality, when that 175 pound shitball took a swing at me...yeah it would hurt. But my fists are bigger than yours, and when I swing them and they connect...they have 397 pounds of force coming with them.
Simple physics..even the most trained martial artist will bet on me against you little man.

So yes...I can see why some smaller asian women would date a fat man. Because, and this is my experience, some women love their man to be much bigger than they are, for protection. As well as warmth on those cold winter nights. A fat man is like a nuclear reactor. Admit it ladies, a skinny guy can't warm you like we can.

Although it is still quite rare in my experience for asian women to date really fat guys, I think there is a lot of truth in what you say. I do think the sense of protection and warmth are big factors. Indeed, this may be especially so for an Asian woman who lives in the west, who might feel a little threatened by all those big white people. Hence, it would make sense for her to choose one of the biggest to protect her from them.

Well...what's REALLY fat? I mean obviously if you can't walk or breathe correctly because you're being smothered by your own devices, then that's really out of control.

But I'm close to 400 lbs and I can run a 9 minute mile. Now, granted...I need a drink and a seat afterward and maybe a shot of oxygen..but I can do it. People seem to equate being large with being automatically unhealthy. And this just isn't the case.

That wasn't what I meant. I just wanted to make it clear that it isn't simply a case of "bigger is better" - there is a limit to how big a guy can be for most Asian women to date her. I guess what I mean to say is that a lot of Asian women like what in BMI terms would be called "overweight", but few like what would be called "obese".

Right. Gotcha. I mean I'm not trying to be the advocate for the fat guy. I don't mind being a big guy, but I do mind being unhealthy. I think it's a sign of weakness to be winded after walking around a mall for an hour. So if you can pull off being big and healthy then more power to you. But if you can't, perhaps it's time to head back to the drawing board.

Agreed. I'm technically overweight, but I can still outrun most people I know, and I go bush walking every week (which often includes climbing up mountains), which is no problem for me. When it is, I will start to worry!

what little experience I have had with Asian woman..they like my size 6'4" and my Chesthair....everyone(not that many) have made a big deal over my chesthair...

My experience is that they don't normally like guys to be too hairy (I guess it's the "alien" thing I refer to above), but on the other hand, I'm sure many of them find it fascinating! ;-)

to each his own..for sure there are plenty to go around....

Okay, I have just deleted the entire nasty thread started by maverick4.

WildGunsTomcat, you have a responsibility to read the disclamer at the bottom of the page before posting, and you were serioulsy in breach of it three times in one thread. Hence, I had no choice other than to suspend your membership.

maverick4, hateful and discriminatory comments are against our rules as well. Given that your breach of our guidelines is less clear cut, I have decided that it is most appropriate to give you a formal warning. However, as your comments so far have all been quite nasty (and have caused offense to at least one of the female contributors here), I am not going to warn you again.

Besides, you made your point already, but as I've already said, it is not borne out by the fact that a lot of Asian women can have any white guy they want. This thread is about why they often prefer chubby guys specifically (including chubby Asians), not why they prefer white guys. Once again, if what you say is true, they'd be dating more slim white guys.

Also, I think Sachiko's comment in response to you above shows what is really going on from the point of view of an Asian woman who can have any guy of any race she wants. And cantik's comments back her up. Who are we going to believe: Asian women themselves, or somebody who obvioulsy has an axe to grind on this issue?

Dr. Lee, I made no hateful or discriminatory comments. The fact that you deleted my arguments, which were based on examples and reason, shows that you have a problem hearing the truth regarding some of the underlying reasons that this article attempts to answer.

I never said these issues applied to all IR couples, and I personally have no problem with IR couples as long as they are not out of self hate, White worship, identity issues, or an inferiority complex for being Asian. However, you honestly cannot expect Asian males stand by and say nothing when certain Uncle Tom Asian women are saying anything, including lies, simply to fuel the egos of their White trophies.

I considered this a forum of reasonable people willing to discuss and explore issues, but now I am beginning to suspect it's only a community where Asian fetish and White worshipping individuals can bask in their mutual narrow beliefs and self-racist stereotypes.

A poster named cantik wrote this in the comment thread:

"I've never dated any asian guys. I grew up in Asia and even when i was there, i never date any asian guys. I guess i'm attracted to other races because i want to have beautiful babies."

Only a 3rd party person in complete denial would say that this individual does not reveal some disturbing aspects of self hate and an inferiority complex for being Asian. She basically implies you can only have beautiful babies if her mate is not Asian, and her self-racist behavior in not even considering Asian men is pretty textbook among those individuals who exhibit what I call White worship.

As I said maverick4, your breach of our guidelines is not clear-cut, but all of your comments have definitely been quite nasty - not calmly reasoned as you suggest. In the interests of fairness I am going to let your last comments stand, but I am warning you: please tone down your language. You can make your point without all the anger and nastiness.

It is this anger and nastiness which led to all the nasty responses in the thread I deleted, and so on it goes. As moderator, I have to keep a lid on this.

Regarding cantik's comments, there is some justification for your point of view. However, her comments also conclusively demonstrate the key points I was making in my article: that Asian women want to mix and balance the genes of their children, and that they simply find chubby guys cute and attractive (e.g. cantik's "buddha belly" comments). Hence, once again the central point of this article - that Asian women are often attracted to chubby guys, regardless of race - is once again demonstrated. As Bubalabobo said: "QED". :-)

I respect your role as a moderator, Dr. Lee, however I continue to be miffed as to why you consider my comments that merely point out examples as 'nasty'.

I will tell you what I find offensive: An article that tries to generalize and explain why we see so many Asian women with chubby or geeky White guys by using a phoney argument involving genetics. If this were true, why aren't women of all races trying to mix, and why does it seem like Asian women are mixing only specifically with White males instead of with men of all races in equal distribution? Which is more likely, that Asian women are specifically looking for chubby or geeky White males, or that Asian women are much more open to dating White males first, and that many of these White males happen to be chubby or geeky?

The reason why what I am saying is offensive to some people is because if you are a White guy, it doesn't fuel your ego as much to consider the possibility that some Asian women have self hate and White worship. Conversely, some Asian women may be offended by this, because it calls them out on their behavior. Certainly the points I raise don't apply to most IR couples, but a noticeable portion say and do very self hating things, and I don't think many people can deny that White worship and self hate DOES exist among some Asian people.

... although I've met a smokin Korean hottie recently and she digs my trim build...

Actually, maverick4 reminds me of yet another reason why I prefer chubby guys to slim guys: attitude. Slim guys often seem to think they are entitled to date me, whereas chubby guys feel lucky to do so. I like this attitude a whole lot better: it inevitably means they treat me with more respect. Maybe if maverick4 didin't have such a nasty attititude (he obviously thinks he should have more success dating Asian women than he does), then maybe more Asian women actually would date him. The majority of Asian women still date Asians.

"Hence, once again the central point of this article - that Asian women are often attracted to chubby guys, regardless of race - is once again demonstrated."
---

This is a gross generalization and stereotype of Asian women that I find laughable. It is a lame attempt to try to explain the underlying phenomenon of Asian self hate and White worship.

If the main argument of the article was true, that Asian women like chubby men of all races, then the entire race of various Asian countries would be full of fat people, as over centuries of natural selection, the chubbier people reproduced more and spread their genes because the females selected for chubby males. This is not the case, as we all know, since almost all Asian countries have thinner and slimmer populations than the rest of the world.

Sachiko, I do not feel entitled to date anyone, I love women and love to pamper them and make them feel good, and as I said before, I do not care about who dates who interracially. BUT what does get me worked up, however, is when certain individuals say self hating Uncle Tom things, or when people come up with really ridiculous theories to try to explain some social phenomena.

If this were true, why aren't women of all races trying to mix, and why does it seem like Asian women are mixing only specifically with White males instead of with men of all races in equal distribution?

If you'd actually read my article maverick4, you'd see that this question is answered by the "alien" factor: whites are exotic enough to be attractive, but not too alien (like blacks for example).

If the main argument of the article was true, that Asian women like chubby men of all races, then the entire race of various Asian countries would be full of fat people, as over centuries of natural selection, the chubbier people reproduced more and spread their genes because the females selected for chubby males.

As I also say in my article, one of the very strong factors in sexual choice is rarity. A good example is that in Europe, chubby was considered to be attractive when it was rare - as only rich people could afford to be chubby, it symbolised wealth (and most of Asia is still has this sort of mindset). Now that chubbiness is commonplace in the west, it is considered unattractive. The same thing might very well happen in Asia over time (indeed, it already has in Japan), although clearly Asians have much less of a genetic predisposition toward chubbiness than caucasians do. Also, clearly diet and lifestyle are big factors here (not just genes).

hey, sorry guys, but i have to come partially to maverick4's defense - i think that has recent comments raise a valid point: "Which is more likely, that Asian women are specifically looking for chubby or geeky White males, or that Asian women are much more open to dating White males first, and that many of these White males happen to be chubby or geeky?"

as an asian female born in the united states, my mom told me that i should marry a doctor or lawyer (as per usual, for any superficial parent) and second to that was that the doctor and lawyer should be white. her mentality has changed a lot since then, but in general as an immigrant to the united states, her worldview was such that asian men were weaklings, small, puny, and unlike white men. she disregarded other races as well - like, african americans, hispanic, etc. - her opinions were extremely racist/bigoted back then. the bigotry was not without reason. her opinion was that in order to 'get ahead' in the US, i had to marry into a 'higher race' and to 'marry down' would be to marry someone of a minority race or marry someone who was uneducated, not rich, w/e.

thus for a while i was primarily attracted to white men (and it was easy too, since my town was 90% white).

since then, i've really opened up and in terms of looks, i don't care about race, just moreso an athletic build (for reasons i've mentioned above about sharing similar health goals).

there are two main groups in which i think this ideology may pervade - asian immigrants to the US and sons/daughters of asian immigrants to the US, and it's probably born mostly out of a desire to raise their socioeconomic status in the US.

however, as lee has mentioned several times, his comments largely apply to asian women in asia, or asian women who have held on to their culture/heritage instead of the asian women i am talking about. secondly, my comments only apply to the US, and i am not certain that other countries are similar in how minorities are treated - i would imagine that in countries which are very nondiscriminatory and open about race, this would not be so visible. there is, of course, in asian countries where US transnationalism has heavily infiltrated US capitalism and political ideologies, the phenomenon in which women in these countries also have this notion of caucasians being 'better.' but i really don't know enough about these topics to speak on them.

i apologize for any grammatical/spelling errors in the comment above - i'm studying for a midterm (supposedly) and i took a quick break to comment, since i think that maverick4 did have some valid points toward the end of the discussion, though his opinions may be very subjective and unique to where he's been living and what race he himself is.

Hi christine. Thanks for demonstrating how to make a reasoned argument aginst my case without getting angry or nasty!

I think your experience is largely limited to the US. In Australia, we are much more of accepting of other cultures just being as they are (I believe this is also the case in the UK and Canada too). In this US, there is strong pressure for everyone to become American, which inevitably results in the sorts of problems you refer to.

Dr. Lee, thanks for your comments. I'll try my best to offer counter-arguments and explanations.

you wrote: "whites are exotic enough to be attractive, but not too alien (like blacks for example)"

This is a subjective claim without proof that generalizes various races as to who is 'too alien'. Even so, Middle Eastern and Indian men, who possess many so-called Caucasian features, are found right next to many Asian countries, yet Asian women are not going after them for the 'exotic' factor the way they are going after many White males.

you wrote: "they are driven by the biological imperitive to mix and balance the genes of their offspring."

If your theory were true, why is it only Asian women who are trying to mix in such high numbers specifically with Whites and not with any other race of men, and why aren't Middle Eastern, Hispanic, Black, and White women compelled to choose mates not of their own race for genetic diversity? I strongly doubt women have this in mind; if anything I would offer that it is the desire among some Asians to create a specifically half-White child, not simply to mix for the sake of inter-mixing with someone different.
------

Look at current Asian fashion, TV, film, advertisements, art, beauty values, etc: Asian society clearly values thin, not chubby, males. I do not believe I have seen a chubby male considered an attractive male symbol in modern Asian society, and your example of the Buddha doesn't apply, because the Buddha is a religious figure, not a sex symbol or is considered attractive sexually or romantically. Your tenet that Asian women are going after what is rare (chubbiness) doesn't fly, I think, unless you can prove to me that Asian women are also going after chubbier Asian men in high numbers as well, which I do not believe to be the case (they go after thin males).

You did not respond yet to this question posed before: which is more likely, that Asian women are into chubby men as a traditional cultural value, or that many Asian women have White worship and are more open to date most White guys, and that a lot of these guys happen to be chubby or geeky? Which is more likely, that chubbiness and genetic diversity is the reason to explain why you see so many Asian women with chubby White guys, or that these chubby and geeky White guys pursue Asians because they have discovered that Asian women are very willing to date White males and that it's easier for them than with other women?

If Asian women aren't going after fat Asian men, then how can you say they are specifically into chubby White males? Doesn't it seem more plausible that some of these women are open to dating men simply because they are Caucasian, and that many of these pursuing White men just so happen to be chubby or geeky?

Basically, you need to prove that Asian women are going after chubby Asian men as well, in order to be able to say that race (being White) does not play a factor in this.

Thanks everyone for keeping an open forum for some honest discussion. Believe me I'm not some angry bitter person, but I do feel compelled to challenge what I consider ridiculous theories when I see them.

Christine, thanks for sharing.

Contrary to what Dr. Lee suggested however, which was that this is an isolated American phenomenon and does not happen in Australia or the UK, I think your story reveals the mentality of Asian people on the continent of Asia towards Whites and other races. Your immigrant mother shared her ideas about White males with you, which I believe is thinking shared by a lot of Asian people in various Asian countries.

I believe that not all, but a sizable portion of Asian people have an inferiority complex towards White males, and have 'White worship' that in this case manifests itself as a bunch of Asian women dating chubby and geeky White guys.

I have to add two more things for the record:

Dr. Lee said: "Responsibility, kindness, and (yes) money are all far more important to them than a guy's looks, and chubby guys more frequently have those qualities than slim and fit guys."

Says who? This is another really bold claim with zero proof, merely another big generalization about fat guys vs. slim guys. I think you're really grasping at straws here.

W.Sparrow said: "Asian women are not negative about themselves or their culture, but instead are put off by the opportunities within their own culture"

Women of Middle Eastern / Jewish / Christian fundamentalist / Hispanic / Black / Indian/ etc cultures have all experienced sexism and oppression throughout history, so I do not consider this a legitimate reason to explain why so many Asian women are with chubby or geek White guys. Instead, I think it is used as a lame excuse to mask the fact that some Asian women simply value White males more ('White worship'), and a willingness to say anything to inflate the ego of their White prize. Conversely, chubby and geeky White males have discovered that for some unknown reason they have much greater success pursuing Asian women.


Finally, I have read a few comments on this board that negatively stereotype White women, and I can't help but wonder if a factor in Asian fetish is a bitterness towards White women. I think it's pretty silly to generalize millions of Caucasian women to be a certain way, just as silly as it is to generalize Asian women a certain way (like this article tries to do).

Okay maverick4, I think it is obvious to anyone that you have an axe to grind on this issue, given the angry tone of your earlier comments, and the sheer flood of comments you've posted here!

Also, the fact that your position is based on emotion (rather than logic) is born out by the fact that you are completely closed to the possibility that there may be more to this than you think. As you can see above, Christine has made some valid arguments which I have had to respond to by going into more detail, but you are completely closed to outside input.

What's more, you keep saying the same thing over and over again, without responding to my criticism of your ideas at all. You accuse me of espousing ideas whithout any factual basis, but I have done a lot more to support my case than you have! All you do is attack my points in isolation, without doing anything to defend your own ideas against my objections. To make your case, you have to explain the following:

1) If this is just about "white worship", then why do Asian women date a disproportionate number of chubby guys relative to the general white population? I've known a lot of slim white guys who complain about how Asian women date chubby guys instead of them, even though they try very hard to date them. Clearly, many Asian women are specifically choosing chubby white guys. I have asked you to explain this many times, but you have repeatedly failed to do so.

2) The one Asian race for whom dating whites really is "cool" are the Japanese. Yet they are also the one Asian race who prefer slim white guys! So here is an undisputed example of the kind of thing you are talking about, yet they choose slim guys. Once again, your ideas fail to explain why many other Asian women specifically choose chubby guys.

3) I have frequently observed that many slim and pretty Asian girls choose big Asian guys. Considering how few big Asian guys there are, this is statitically remarkable, and once again demonstrates that a lot of Asian women prefer big guys, regardless of their racial preference.

4) You don't really make a case at all anyway, as all you are really doing is restating the original point (that a lot Asian women date chubby white guys). Saying that they are into "self-hate" does not say anything about the reason for this phenomonon. Is it not possible that the sorts of things I'm talking about are the basis for this? Don't cantik's comments demonstrate this?

"1) If this is just about "white worship", then why do Asian women date a disproportionate number of chubby guys relative to the general white population?"

First of all, your premise isn't even true. I have already explained this to you but you don't like the answer (it doesn't inflate your male ego): Many Asian women see dating White as some sort of status trophy, so are more open to accepting dates from most White males. Conversely, chubby and geeky White males have discovered they have more success talking to Asian women than White or any other women. Thus, these two pairs naturally pop up more.

"2) The one Asian race for whom dating whites really is "cool" are the Japanese. Yet they are also the one Asian race who prefer slim white guys!"

I agree on both counts. Among Asians I believe Japanese and Filipino women have the highest amounts of White worship (based on US intermarriage rates with specifically White, at over 40%), which I believe is mentality from having 2 Abombs dropped on their heads as well as hundreds of years of European colonialism. Additionally, it's no surprise they're going after thin guys, since Asian women prefer thin males, not chubby males.

"3) I have frequently observed that many slim and pretty Asian girls choose big Asian guys. "

Once again, this is a really big generalization of yours without proof. As I said before, chubby males have never historically been considered attractive in any Asian society (thin males are preferred by far), which is why over hundreds of years, the entire populations of Asians have produced more thin people as thin males were selected more than chubby males. If you're going to argue that in modern society chubby males are selected more, you'll have to do better than claim Asian girls choose chubby guys simply based on your observation. I think the basic premise of your article isn't even true, that Asian women choose chubby guys. They only choose chubby guys because they are WHITE guys who asked them out.

"4) Saying that they are into "self-hate" does not say anything about the reason for this phenomonon."

You seem to be the one trying to defend a ridiculous thesis by clinging to wild generalizations based on limited observations. You just seem so against the idea that some Asian women are dating White males simply because they are White, and lower their standards to accept dates from White males who are chubby or geeky or socially awkward.

If you'll allow, I'll post some links for you to check out and tell me they doesn't suggest self hate, White worship, or an inferiority complex (like cantik's self hating comments):

Tyra Banks Calls Out Asian Eye Surgery and Self Hate on her show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ7XSIi3kAs&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWOUyFOYR2E&NR=1

Time Magazine: Asians Remaking Themselves to Look More Caucasian
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020805/story2.html

Is Sexual Attraction Manufactured by Society / Media?

“Your physical and sexual attraction is socially constructed,” says Elaine Kim, Ph.D., professor of Asian American Studies at the University of California at Berkeley

http://www.audreymagazine.com/Sep2005/Features03.asp

How Asian-Americans Are Conditioned to Self-Hate

"The constant idealization of Whiteness in the media (by the media) has become the impetus for the Self-Hate (Internalized Racism) that is common in Non-White populations around the world. It is because of the globalization of Whiteness that many Non-White parents subconsciously groom their children to be "White" and to marry White partners so as to integrate with the global status quo. These unnatural mentalities are subconscious idolizations for Whiteness and serve to solidify White Privilege. Most self-haters are not even aware that they are self-hating."

http://opposingdigits.com/racistparadigm/#r3

---------
Asians are more into branding than the average person. A lot of Asians are obsessed with getting into a prestigious school, wearing very exclusive clothing brands and bags, driving expensively branded cars, etc etc.

Do you see how this translates into media images? If Whites are constantly portrayed, or branded, as the most prestigious image, then doesn't it make sense that some Asians will be drawn to White as some sort of status symbol, or trophy?

I shall now try to respond to your points:

Middle Eastern and Indian men, who possess many so-called Caucasian features, are found right next to many Asian countries, yet Asian women are not going after them for the 'exotic' factor the way they are going after many White males.

Once again, the "alien" factor is the key here. Their dark skin is mostly what makes these races too "alien" for Asians, especially as dark skin is widely considered to be unattractive in Asia. Caucasians have just the right mix of exoticism and familiarity for Asian women.

I do not believe I have seen a chubby male considered an attractive male symbol in modern Asian society, and your example of the Buddha doesn't apply, because the Buddha is a religious figure

Advertising etc. is informed by western values of what is considered cool and attractive. The Buddha figure is telling because it isn't informed by preceived "coolness", it is representative of the collective subconscious of Chinese, which is actually far more powerful and real. Once again, cantik's comments demonstrate this (and Sachiko has often told me similar things).

these chubby and geeky White guys pursue Asians because they have discovered that Asian women are very willing to date White males and that it's easier for them than with other women?

So what about all the slim white guys I mention above who complain that is so much harder for them to date Asian women than chubby guys? Clearly Asian women are selecting chubby white guys over slim white guys.

Basically, you need to prove that Asian women are going after chubby Asian men as well, in order to be able to say that race (being White) does not play a factor in this.

See my comments above. Many slim and pretty Asian girls actually do date the very few big Asian guys that are available.

Conversely, chubby and geeky White males have discovered that for some unknown reason they have much greater success pursuing Asian women.

You are basically admiting that the phenomonon I refer to is real, and you don't know why. So why are you so unwilling to accept my explanation?

I think it's pretty silly to generalize millions of Caucasian women to be a certain way, just as silly as it is to generalize Asian women a certain way (like this article tries to do).

Yet basically everything you say negatively stereotypes Asian women! You can't have it both ways maverick4.

Regarding your more recent comments, don't you have anything better to do other than say the same thing over and over again in response to this article? And you still have failed to repond to my key criticisms of your ideas! I am not saying what you think isn't a factor (at least for some Asian women), but you fail to explain why this factor exists, and your assertion that what you think is the only possible explanation for a phenomonon you think doesn't exist anyway (despite what everybody else here says) is extremely narrow minded.

"Their dark skin is mostly what makes these races too "alien" for Asians, especially as dark skin is widely considered to be unattractive in Asia."

If you can agree that Asian women are more open to dating Caucasian males, why is my counter-theory so hard to accept?

"So what about all the slim white guys I mention above who complain that is so much harder for them to date Asian women than chubby guys?"

Have you ever considered that these guys are coming up with some pretty lame excuses to make themselves feel better? Fact is, it doesn't matter if you are slim or chubby or geeky, if you are White, I am trying to tell you Asian women are more open to accepting dates from you in the first place. And I am saying that way more chubby and geeky guys are going after Asian women because they have discovered Asian women are more receptive to their advances than other women.

"Many slim and pretty Asian girls actually do date the very few big Asian guys that are available."

Says who? I've already explained this has never happened historically in Asian society: chubbiness has never been selected as an attractive trait over hundreds of years of breeding. Even in modern society, nowhere in society or mass media is chubbiness considered sexy, or even a positive trait. In fact, Asians consider chubbiness a sign of poor health, diet, and fitness - ever hear of Asians openly criticize their sons and daughters for being 'too fat'? It happens all the time.

"You can't have it both ways maverick4."

I'm not having it both ways. Even in this thread, Christine backed me up, and additionally cantik's post proved that White worship exists. However, I doubt you'll find a White woman who will back up the negative stereotypes you've claimed, whereas the phenomenon I am talking about are easily revealed by the words some Asian females say, or confirm. If you still don't believe me, please read those links and try to expand your perspective a little.

Try to expand my perspective a little? I have already said the kind of thing you are talking about is probably a factor in some cases. You are the one who is making the ridiculous assertion that what you think is the only possible explanation for what is going on here. Christine accepts the strong possibility that there is a lot of truth in what I say, but you aren't interested in anything that contradicts your extremely narrow point of view, because you blatantly have a vested emotional interest in it. Your denial of this is totally absurd given your actions.

BTW, I never denied that a lot of Asian women like to date caucasians - try actually reading my article! But I also said that slim Asian girls often prefer to date chubby guys. This is only relative to what you would expect (a point you don't seem to get either) - in practice, the majority still do end up with slim guys. It's just that a lot more of them end up with chubby guys than you would normally think. This is a real phenomonon, as evidenced by all the responses here, and the mere fact that a lot of people asked me to do this article in the first place!

I think we have come to an agreement that there are a higher than normal amount of Asian women with chubby or geeky White guys, that we can agree on. The 'why' part is what I am talking about.

You've already admitted what I am saying (White worship) is a probable factor, but based on what I've written, aside from White worship, how can you continue to claim there is some sort of bias among Asian women for chubby males? It is only true if you are a White male who happens to be chubby. Asian women aren't going after chubby Asian / Hispanic / Arabic men.

Anyways, I'll let you continue to believe Asian women all have a fetish for chubby guys, and that it's not related mostly to simply dating anyone White. If it helps you or your friends feel better about yourselves, more power to you. I just think the title of this article isn't true, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for this forum, I can tell you are a passionate and intelligent person, and I respect that.

I have already explained many times why I think there is a bias amongst many Asian women toward chubby guys; I am not going to bore everyone by repeating myself over and over again as you have. And once again, your "explanation" isn't really an explanation at all, as it only puts the question back a step: why the "white worship"? Is it not possible that the sorts of things I talk about here are the basis for this perceived phenomonon? And once again you accuse us of trying to make oursleves "feel better", when it is fact you who is actually doing just that.

I also have to wonder what led you to the baseless and frankly ridiculous conclusion that it is somehow more ego satisfying for Asian women to want us for being chubby, rather than for being white. What difference does it make? Indeed, I think I'd prefer it if they simply wanted me because I'm white: after all, I might lose weight one day, but my race will never change!

There is one interesting aspect of what maverick4 has raised: the apparent contradiction between what Asians consciously think on this issue, and what they subconscioulsy think. I have experienced this myself: I've had Asian women tell me they think chubby guys are cute, while at the same time telling their son not to get too fat! I guess it's due to a contradiction between what they think is healthy and what they (subconsciously at least) think is attractive. Perhaps this is due to being in transition from old to modern ways of thinking on this issue.

I`m fairly new to this site, but found this article to be over-thinking things just a tad. What about the consideration that maybe the guy was fit and healthy and just gained weight being in the relationship?

I was born and raised in the Philippines until the age of 9. I was then adopted by white parents and moved to the US.

I am now almost 22 and to be honest, it just all depends on the girl and what she likes. I remember being younger and a girl going to modeling school with me was digging my white boyfriend`s chubby white friend at the time.

Coming out of high school I had dated another white male, but he wasn`t even close to athletic, he was a game designer and was a complete geek. After him I had then dated a surfer working on his web design degree, with a good physique who had become very chubby in our year-and-a-half relationship. Now at this time I had my standards: white, blue eyes, 5'11"+ in height, blah blah.

Now I found myself going out of that "white" box and dating a Vietnamese male, about 5'9", very athletic build, and looks like he`ll never gain an ounce of fat for the rest of his life. I was never ever that skinny bones type of asian girl either, I`ve always had some meat on my bones.

Who knows who I`ll end up with. But I think that it`s just easy to focus on this because you guys have an infatuation with asian females, so you may perceive it this way more. I believe no matter what race you are, you have your standards in the opposite sex.

The whole asian skinny women with chubby white males is absurd.

not chubby white males...just well rounded males in general. asian women also prefers lighter skin males. they equate this to aristocrats..not having to work in the fields. this is not done consciously but more on a subconscious cultural level. :) lucky for both me and doc .... :)

Now this I can definitely agree with. My biological mother is lighter skinned while my father was darker. Living in Florida and becoming more Americanized, being tan isn`t such a bad thing here.

However, I remember my mother was obsessed with bleach creams and would constantly make sure I used them. That eventually carried on when I grew older where I would use the highest sunblock I could find, sit under the shade or umbrella, and wear a hat and sunglasses so I wouldn`t get darker.

There`s divided racism it seems in every culture. Love the brown women, as well as the yellow! Lol =]

Hoy-day! What a sweep of vanity
comes this way!
Shakespeare

Oh, wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursel's as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
And foolish notion.
Robert Burns

And, since I am vain:
Poorer nations (cultures) equate a tendency to excess body weight as a sign or indication of wealth, prosperity, leisure.
This is likewise historically true: the more calories a nation's food technology can conveniently and cheaply produce -- regardless of an individual's propensity to be fat due to overeating, not exercising enough, genetic inheritance -- the more likely are its children to be larger, healthier, and fatter, than their parents. (This also explains why, for instance, your American teenage daughter is almost a half foot taller than the average Civil War era soldier.)
Perhaps richer nations (cultures) provide the necessary wealth and leisure for many of their citizens to obsess over and argue the politics of romantic attraction and body size - or penis or breast or butt size, for all of that.
Speaking as a white American male: better to be concerned about getting involved with a woman who is much smarter than I am.
O&O

i'm sure you won't have a problem finding a girl like that

LOL! Good to know you're still looking in Christine. ;-)

maverick4 is an MIT student who uses the website facebook.com to talk about Asian American issues. He created a discussion group called "Asians Not Brain-Washed By Media" and has a direct link to this posting. From what I read from him on the discussion board, he's pretty high on himself, if theres anyone with an inflated ego, its him. He seems to read a lot of Asian American books, you can tell because of his use of labels and his inability to think outside of the box. He seems to hold these books as the only truths. I'm all for Asian American rights, but this guy goes overboard about everything. He uses generalizations about other races too without base, saying that "latinos will watch any Jennifer Lopez movie. " He never apologizes even when he makes sexist comments. I'm an Asian American btw, and I wrote this post because I just get tired of his comments. I respect some of his views, but theres a line between rationalism and extremism.

Yeah, personally I find his sweeping generalisation that all Asian women who date white guys (and many others besides) are into "self-hate" very narrow minded and quite offensive (and as a slim Asian women who likes chubby guys, Sachiko was offended by his comments). I really think Asian women are for the most part very sensible in their choice of men - certainly a lot more so than a lot of caucasian women in my experience, who are often seduced by what the media tells them is "cool", instead of just using their own common sense.

Your comment about Jennifer Lopez is TOTALLY taken out of context.
That was posted verbatim from a Hollywood exec explaining the various markets for movies, and how studios greenlight certain Latino movies because they know Latinos financially support their own.
That thread was from a comment by a Hollywood agent who explained to Asian Americans that most Asian American act and buy 'White', and how there is no demand for an Asian American market. The J-Lo example was used to explain why you hardly ever see Asian American males in movies, only Asian women in Asian fetish roles, because Asian Americans don't support Asian American products and images.

zombie, not sure who you are, but you took that quote out of context on purpose, for what reason who knows.

I have posted what I have had to say on this page above, anyone who wants to dispute my contentions that many Asians and Asian Americans these days suffer from self hate, inferiority complex towards Whites, and White worship, are welcome to post, you know where to find me.

"caucasian women in my experience, who are often seduced by what the media tells them is "cool", instead of just using their own common sense."

Dr. Lee, I am surprised by your words pasted above, because you are saying that White women are brainwashed by various media images (like Black guys idolized in hip hop, rap, and movies), yet you won't see the same kind of mass media brainwashing of many Asian women to worship White males.

C'mon, who are we kidding here, this is evident to anyone walking down any sidewalk, where you see a disproportionate pairing of a young Asian girl and a bald/old/fat/wimpy/ socially awkward White guy. Just admit it guys, I know it hurts your egos a bit to admit it's mostly just your White skin, but how can you deny this? It is so obvious, just go outside and take a look down any downtown area.

Once again, why should it hurt our egos if these girls want us because we're white? It would only hurt our egos if we weren't white, as it clearly does your's. Hence, the entire basis of your assumption here is totally off-base.

No media anywhere - either in the west or in Asia - promotes chubby guys as cool. They always promote slim guys. So if what you say were the only thing involved, these Asian girls would be dating slim white guys. Indeed, Japanese girls - who it seems actually are brainwashed by the media - really do much prefer slim guys to chubby guys. It is only the more traditional Asian girls - who seemingly aren't brainwashed by the media - who date chubby guys.

And once again, I am not saying that what you talk about isn't a factor here, but once again you don't explain the ultimate basis for this tendancy (which I do). The really ridiciculous thing here is your total unwillingness to accept that anything other than what you think could possibly be involved - this points to a belief based on emotion, not logic. I think it is patently obvious to anyone reading this that it is you who has the bruised ego, not the many chubby guys and Asian girls who've confirmed what I write about here (and some of those chubby guys, such as LawBoy, are actually Asian themselves).

who said i am chubby :)

Sorry, I meant "soft and fluffy". ;-)

"this points to a belief based on emotion, not logic."

Give me a break buddy, anyone who has read your article knows how off base it is, you are coming up with really wacky reasons like genetics (yeah I'm sure Asian women think about this) to explain why they go after not just chubby White guys, but all kinds kinds of White guys including fat, old, bald, wimpy, or socially awkward White guys.

Go on making the craziest conclusions ever to explain a phenomenon that only exists in you and your friends' minds.

You really don't get it do you. My whole point is that Asian women do not think about this - natural selection works on a subconscious level. When we feel we want to have sex, we aren't thinking about procreating our genes, but that is why we want it.

Besides, you are the only one who seems to think I am totally off-base, and once again I am recognising that what you think is a factor. It is you who refuses to accept any alternative possibility. This is a clear indicator of an emotional position, not a rational one.

that's better...soft and fluffy like a goose down pillow. :)

Blah Blah the natural selection thing is bullcrap, especially your thesis that Asian women choose fat ugly White guys out of some sort of genetic reason.

I find it baffling how you can admit to believing that White women are subconsciously influenced by media images, yet you don't think this is a major factor among Asian women as well, especially pertaining to White worship.

If you truly believe in this genetics crazy theory, then it HAS to apply to women of other races then.

So, explain to me the genetic reasons why White women go after Black and Hispanic men, and give me genetic reasons why women of ALL races aren't going after chubby White guys like Asian women are.

Alright maverick4, your opening paragraph here is once again outside our posting guidelienes, and almost all of your other comments have been borderline. I've already given you more than ample warning, so you've left with me no choice other than to delete you. AS is a place for civil discussion about Asian women and related issues - you can save your extremist, ill-informed and narrow-minded vitriole for the one or two people who read your Facebook page (wherever it is).

I did say that the media was evidently a major factor in influencing how modern Japanese women choose men, hence their perference for slim white guys. The Asian women who choose chubby guys evidently are not overly influenced by the media however, as the media never promotes chubby guys.

And I've already explained why the combination of Asian women and chubby white guys is so common relative to other racial mixes: once again, it is just the right balance between exoticism and familiarity. And even then, interracial marriages of all kinds are becoming increasingly common anyway, as previous social and religious barriers are torn down. However, amongst all the major races, the preference for chubbiness is largely unique to Asian women, for the reasons I've already explained - if you bothered to actually read them.

i'm asian. doc's observation is correct about asian women in asia. dont know about white and black folks :) just enjoy the boobs maverick...this is not a forum for all the psycho babble bro.

There's a perception out there, perpetuated by the media, that white is better. In reality in America, that is true. Can't blame asian chicks from spreading for whities. If I could bag me a hot white chick, I'd do it too instead of the curveless or sloppy stuff I'm getting.

holyabdul...i have had lengthy discusion about asian women and white women with my buds...growing up in the US for the past 30years plus i can tell you from my observations. caucasian girls developed very early...by 12 or 13. i remember how beautiful these girls were...of course i was also 12 or 13...for those of you thinking bad thoughts :)) these girls will stay pretty until about 19 or 20ish and they start going down hill. probably from all the fast food. for asian women, they dont start developing until 19 or so...but they stay pretty and in shape well into their late 30's. of course this is generalization but from my experience it seems true...doc? So now later in life, i am not at all attracted to caucasian women my age or a tad younger. however, the asian women my age or a little younger are still pretty hot....like my wife :))) he he . no offense to the whiteys :)) j/k

Agreed on all counts. ;-)

To Christine (whose comment I am guessing is in direct response to my immediately preceding post):
Sorry, Dear, but I'm not looking for a "pro"...
In any event, feel free to comment if you ever get around to reading (or otherwise comprehending) the actual content of my post.
PS: Is that your "English" name, or are you from the Philippines?
Either way, vis-a-vis your blurry photo, you're kinda cute.
Take Care,
O&O

Dr. Lee,

This is my first post on this site, but it was this article that encouraged me to register. I'm a fat guy with a predilection for Asian women and I'd really like this article to be true. However, with all due respect, your article seems to be based more on hearsay and wishful thinking than any kind of scientific fact. The great skeptic Carl Sagan noted, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." So instead of trying to refute your claims with supported facts about evolution, natural selection, cultural studies, and sociology, I would ask you to support your claims. You made no references to where your theories such as balancing genes comes from. So much of this is worded like speculation derived from anecdotal observation. In fact most, if not all, replies to your article, whether they support or refute you, have also been based on anecdotal observation. I don't care how many Asian/white couples you see in public every day, without even something so much as a semi-scientific survey it is just speculation. If you cop out and come back to me with the excuse that this article was just for fun and not based on any scientific evidence, then please do us a favor and say so in the first place. Also take out any terms like "biological." This assumes that you are making such claims based on science. Even your claims about culture and tradition are unsupported. Did you really do any research, surveying, or experimentation to make such claims? If so , what are the sources? I'd like to believe you but wishful thinking doesn't make things true.

-Plaid

You have a valid point, but ultimately this is still Asian Sirens, and the space I have a available to go into this is limited - this subject really deserves a book. Once again, the article was written in response to requests from our readers, as many of them have observed this phenomonon. I've tried to give it the best treatment I could in this context.

it is AS...so mostly it is boobs and asses. but sometime we try to share certain opinions...not necessary scientific but more social observations....no need to get your panties in a twist :) i keep seeing this, people just take things too seriously on a site that is mainly about asian hotties. enjoy the view plaid and welcome to another soft and fluffy guy :)

Thanks for your honest reply,

To be fair, if anything, your article and the replies that follow at least show that there is a great deal of interest in such a topic and that there probably isn't a direct resource for such a question. So I agree with your comment about a book. I understand you may not be able to take on such an endeavor. Yet, with the amount of replies it could show a great interest for a possible research grant in evolution or sociology, I'm not sure which if these would even be the proper topics. However, the controversy surrounding the topic would probably lend to interest in commercial book deal. Controversy sells, especially sexy controversy. However, if you happen to stumble across a decent resource that would help support your claims please share it.

Thanks,
Plaid

This is actually one of things on my list of "things I want to do before I die". No time now though. :-(

LawBoy,

Thanks for the welcome. I'll try not to forget the T&A, but I do fill out the "geeky" part of "fat and geeky" about as well as I do the "fat" part. So my geeky ass can get carried away with intellectual debate. After all, I have a personal bias in Dr. Lee's claims to be true. It would be especially motivating to know, while for purposes of my personal health I should shed some pounds, it would be nice to know that I could slim down to chubby and still be confident about possibly attracting Asian women.

On another account, if I were to speculate on such things for the sake of a hypothetical discussion, then I would say that I have met a great deal of geeky guys who have a predilection toward Asian women. Although geeks are famous for being bashful, have you considered that there may be a good amount of these guys who actively pursue Asian women and there just may be a good deal of these women becoming involved with these guys. Observation alone can tell us that we can encounter a great variety of couples with various physical characteristics mixed or not. So there may be something to what is said about self esteem and personality being a factor in coupling.

I live in a city with a very small Asian population. I go to bars and when I was in college I went to the library a lot. I noticed a lot of Asian women frequented the university library probably because a lot of the Asians in my city are university students. Well, by observation alone, I noticed there seemed to be a lot more Asian women in the library than at the bar. This was just my experience and I offer no speculation as to why this was my experience. Now given this type of situation I also noticed a lot more geeky guys hanging out in the library than trim athletic guys. Although I'd gather a lot of geeky guys were more like me and too bashful to approach the Asian women in the library. But that would leave the field better open for those geeks with the guts to ask them out and maybe those women would accept more date offers from such guys because they were the ones mostly asking. So the question is to any women reading this, would you accept a date from a man who doesn't fit your exact physical predilections if said man showed desirable personality traits?

This is all just to say that there could be a number of reasons beyond biology for this phenomenon, if it truly exists.

but plaid you do have to admit you do appreciate the T&A's here at AS right? :) very nice :)

Actually Plaid, I think the answer to your question is "yes". I think a major point of my article is that personality comes before looks for Asian women, and they do like geeks. And it is true that a lot of white geeks happen to be chubby.

is lawboy and Lawnboy the same person

Wow! That's a very detailed & deep article! I'm not quite sure how much of it has to do with biological instinct though. In my opinion, it has more to do with psychological & emotional reasons as that's just how we women are naturally.

First of all, you are right, I've also seen quite a few hot Asian women with not-so-hot looking and/or fat guys! I can't think of any other reasons why this is than to believe that *perhaps* these women feel more confident because well, it is so obvious that there'd be no mistreatment in the relationship! It's sort of like "I've got a hot woman here, there's no reason why I should look elsewhere!" kind of situation.

I personally prefer good-looking, well-built men... don't have to be all ripped, but at least healthy. I'm picky at the very beginning, but after that, it's all about personality.

As I say in my article and my responses above, I do think the kinds of things you talk about are definitely factors, but once again, these almost certainly have a biological basis ultimately. That is the reason why "that's just how we women are naturally", as you say. Women want a stable, reliable and responsible partner, and chubby guys represent that to many women (particularly Asians).

Do Asian girls go for black guys?
...and if they did, would the guy's "shade" make a difference? ie: Would Asian girls prefer lighter-shade black guys as opposed to black guys with a darker complection?
....Or, would Asian girls rather not even go there?